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..... My way is to be stronger and to live a life with suffering and the buddhist way is to end all suffering. It's 2 different ways and I think that none of them is wrong, but I do think that these 2 are the best ways we can choose to live our lifes.
@Lejon, Here, you are incorrect. The Buddhist way is NOT to 'end all suffering'.
The Buddhist way is to transcend all suffering. There is a difference.
I think once you understand this, it may even change your perspective slightly.... Anyone who sets him - or her - self up as a teacher must first of all have mastered their own suffering.
You cannot call yourself 'teacher' if you are still learning.
Buddhism doesn't force anything on you. It's very common for beginners to want to develop virtue and concentration, but ignore insight for the time being. I would even say it's a good training strategy. Not much point in developing insight until the mind is stable enough to handle it.
People set unrealistic and impossible goals all the time. The Bodhisattva vow is a classic example. My own unrealistic and impossible goal is to develop sufficient capacity to meditate that I could do it while dying an excruciating and ignominious/undignified death, like Christ and the Buddha did. I do hope to avoid the actual painful and ignominious part, though. That seems like a more reasonable goal. Anyway, this unrealistic goal will keep me practicing forever, I expect. Nothing wrong with that.
It seems to me that the core distinguishing feature of contemporary Mahayana, and the primary reason it dominates the Buddhist world, is that it tries to take the fruits of the practice and put them to work in the midst of the defilements of everyday life. So what Lejon is proposing sounds like typical Mahayana philosophy to me. And if he wants to develop the Hinayana* path first, I think that will be very productive. Contemporary Mahayana schools don't give enough emphasis to development of concentration and the flexibility of practice it requires, at least Tibetan Buddhism and Zen as I learned them.
Sure, he is going to get his ass kicked repeatedly, because what he wants to do is very hard, probably impossible. I don't really see the harm, though.
*Hopefully the citations I've made in this thread show that I am using this term in a purely technical, nondisparaging sense.
My name is Lejon and I'm here because I'm in need of help from those who know more than me about The Noble Eightfold Path.
I now want to start following the right view and learn what I need about the right view to understand it correctly and to be able to follow it correctly. As far as I know the right view is where to start but of course I would later on learn all I need to know about right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration. I will start with the right view as I understand that The Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) said it was the way to go because you will then get the right view of the rest of the path.
I'm not new to buddhism but I guess I can say that I'm new to following buddhism. Since about 10 years back I have been interested in buddhism and I have since then read a lot and learned a lot and I think I have a pretty good idea of what buddhism realy is and I think buddhism is the most advanced and realistic teaching/religion/faith in the world today.
I want to start with The Noble Eightfold Path but what I also would like to do is to meditate and go as far as the Jhanas when I'm ready for that, it has been a dream since about 4 years back now. So before I ask any questions about meditation I will ask you about the right view and how I should think in right view, I also want to know any good texts that I can read. I ask only one thing though about the information I will recieve, I ask it to be as close to The Buddhas own words as possible, I guess it's the Pali Canon, it can't get any closer than that, right? So it's fair to say that I'm interesting in Theravada Buddhism, the way The Buddha tought it or at least as close as possible.
That's a little about why I'm here.
I ask for help about "The Right View". What do I do to understand and follow "The Right View"? What do I read for texts about it? Is there any good guidelines? I have read some about it but that is more explanations of what it is and not how to use it in real life, I haven't found any good step by step texts on how to practice it. I really would like to learn a easy and understandable way on how to practice it in everyday life. It's like I'm tought how a apple tree feels like, look like, what kind of fruits it produces and all the good things it brings BUT it don't teach me how to plant it, take care of it, produce the fruits and how to eat the fruits. That is what I want to learn now, I think I have a pretty good idea of how good it is, I need instructions on how to use it. I do not live in a sangha but I live a almost holy life compared to the avarage citizen of the world of today. From today and for the rest of this year I will not have any sex, not lie, not steal, not drink alcohol or use any drugs, not use bad words, not talk loud and a lot of other things and after this year I will make some changes but I don't know what yet. I will also use white clothes whenever I do not work or exercise. I take care of my body very well and I do some kind of exercise everyday and I have to eat according to that but I try to do all I do in the best way possible and always looking for better ways to do it. There is many things that limit my options at the moment but I do the best I can with the options I have right now.
I hope I have made my self understandable, I will answer any question about this so just ask if anything is unclear.
Basicly what I'm asking for is a step by step list or guidlines on how to implement The Right View in everyday "modern" life.
I'm gratefull for all help I can get!
Namaste
I'm not sure that you can practice having Right View. My understanding is that Right View is a result not an aim. And that it results from mindfulness of how things are. So what I suggest you need to do is develop mindfulness of what is arising in the present. And it has nothing directly to do with having sex or not, or having a glass of wine or not..unless you are a monk. And you certainly do not have to wear white clothes, unless you want to. There are a number of ways to develop mindfulness. Its quite likely that in your neighbourhood someone can teach you the basics.
Crikey, @lobster. Less anxiety, less greed, more generosity, more activity "praised by the wise," less activity "criticized by the wise." Didn't the Buddha have something to say about these things?
Here, you are incorrect. The Buddhist way is NOT to 'end all suffering'.
The Buddhist way is to transcend all suffering. There is a difference.
That was the first time I read transcend, is it your translation or is it what the Buddha himself said? What I have read A LOT though is "End Of All Suffering" and "Cessation Of All Suffering", I have hard to translate that to something other than an END to all suffering. Again, all this confusion of what the words mean and different translations and all the misunderstanding that brings is one of the major reasons for me to find a new path. Is it "your" view of this word that is the right view? I do not know?
And it has nothing directly to do with having sex or not, or having a glass of wine or not..unless you are a monk. And you certainly do not have to wear white clothes, unless you want to.
The things I do not do at the moment I do not do because I want to keep my focus on other things or I do not do them to be a better person. I do not do them for right view alone. I wrote that to give you a picture of how my life look like. Sorry for confusing you.
The reason I'm wearing white clothes has nothing to do with my desire to learn right view or at least very little. It makes me feel pure, clean and they keep me reminded on what I'm doing, they also show everyone else what I'm doing so they hopefully do not disturb me.
Better how? In what way stronger? I would be interested in being a more human human, what teaching can you provide on that?
Well, as I wrote above I do not teach now so I can not provide a teaching on that now. But I can tell you a little about "better how and in what way stronger"
"Better how?" Less harmfull to my surroundings, no lies, be respectful, be kind, helpful. Things like that...I hope you get the picture of how I try to be a better human. It's really basic stuff that this world is lacking in a major way today.
"In what way stronger?" Physicaly stronger, mentaly stronger, emotionaly stronger. Stronger in anyway possible. I have a strong beliefe that a human who is stronger lives a longer and happier life. I do NOT talk about body building steroid using stronger.
I hope I have been clear with as little misunderstandings as possible. But sometimes it feels your posts comes from another discussion you are having with yourself or someone other than me, it is several times I get "attacked" on something that I did not even say. I do enjoy the discussion with you but I only for you to be respectful and I will do my best to be the same.
I learn a lot from you! This is very much appreciated, thank you! For example I have learned that I will have to take up my meditation again. But I need to find a space for it in my life because I do not want to squezze it in between work and training and the rest of the things I'm doing, that has never worked before. This time I will make room for meditation and if I'm lucky maybe I can meditate at one of the two temples in my area, my home is quite noisy sometimes. I do also have a cat who hardly will leave me alone that long, lol. The thing about these temples I would like to say is one is a theravada and the other one is chinese and I do not know what kind that is because I have never really wanted to know but know I would like to just visit and ask. Everyday on my early morning walk I walk on the road that goes right in the middle of the, they are right next to each other.
Here, you are incorrect. The Buddhist way is NOT to 'end all suffering'.
The Buddhist way is to transcend all suffering. There is a difference.
That was the first time I read transcend, is it your translation or is it what the Buddha himself said? What I have read A LOT though is "End Of All Suffering" and "Cessation Of All Suffering", I have hard to translate that to something other than an END to all suffering. Again, all this confusion of what the words mean and different translations and all the misunderstanding that brings is one of the major reasons for me to find a new path. Is it "your" view of this word that is the right view? I do not know?
And it has nothing directly to do with having sex or not, or having a glass of wine or not..unless you are a monk. And you certainly do not have to wear white clothes, unless you want to.
The things I do not do at the moment I do not do because I want to keep my focus on other things or I do not do them to be a better person. I do not do them for right view alone. I wrote that to give you a picture of how my life look like. Sorry for confusing you.
The reason I'm wearing white clothes has nothing to do with my desire to learn right view or at least very little. It makes me feel pure, clean and they keep me reminded on what I'm doing, they also show everyone else what I'm doing so they hopefully do not disturb me.
Better how? In what way stronger? I would be interested in being a more human human, what teaching can you provide on that?
Well, as I wrote above I do not teach now so I can not provide a teaching on that now. But I can tell you a little about "better how and in what way stronger"
"Better how?" Less harmfull to my surroundings, no lies, be respectful, be kind, helpful. Things like that...I hope you get the picture of how I try to be a better human. It's really basic stuff that this world is lacking in a major way today.
"In what way stronger?" Physicaly stronger, mentaly stronger, emotionaly stronger. Stronger in anyway possible. I have a strong beliefe that a human who is stronger lives a longer and happier life. I do NOT talk about body building steroid using stronger.
I hope I have been clear with as little misunderstandings as possible. But sometimes it feels your posts comes from another discussion you are having with yourself or someone other than me, it is several times I get "attacked" on something that I did not even say. I do enjoy the discussion with you but I only for you to be respectful and I will do my best to be the same.
I learn a lot from you! This is very much appreciated, thank you! For example I have learned that I will have to take up my meditation again. But I need to find a space for it in my life because I do not want to squezze it in between work and training and the rest of the things I'm doing, that has never worked before. This time I will make room for meditation and if I'm lucky maybe I can meditate at one of the two temples in my area, my home is quite noisy sometimes. I do also have a cat who hardly will leave me alone that long, lol. The thing about these temples I would like to say is one is a theravada and the other one is chinese and I do not know what kind that is because I have never really wanted to know but know I would like to just visit and ask. Everyday on my early morning walk I walk on the road that goes right in the middle of the, they are right next to each other.
Less harmful to my surroundings, no lies, be respectful, be kind, helpful. Things like that...I hope you get the picture of how I try to be a better human.
Yes indeed Excellent and inspiring aspirations.
"In what way stronger?" Physicaly stronger, mentaly stronger, emotionally stronger.
Understood. Harmonising, balancing and growing in the Middle Way will strengthen that potential.
I hope I have been clear with as little misunderstandings as possible. But sometimes it feels your posts comes from another discussion you are having with yourself or someone other than me, it is several times I get "attacked" on something that I did not even say. I do enjoy the discussion with you but I only for you to be respectful and I will do my best to be the same.
One day we find that being challenged is something we welcome. Disrespectful friends challenge us beyond our capacity. Your assumptions and ours are being probed and explored. This is the very kindest and least form of dharma debate. You are indeed being honest, transparent and respectful. Others to the best of their limitations are aiming for the same . . .
Comments
Here, you are incorrect.
The Buddhist way is NOT to 'end all suffering'.
The Buddhist way is to transcend all suffering.
There is a difference.
I think once you understand this, it may even change your perspective slightly....
Anyone who sets him - or her - self up as a teacher must first of all have mastered their own suffering.
You cannot call yourself 'teacher' if you are still learning.
People set unrealistic and impossible goals all the time. The Bodhisattva vow is a classic example. My own unrealistic and impossible goal is to develop sufficient capacity to meditate that I could do it while dying an excruciating and ignominious/undignified death, like Christ and the Buddha did. I do hope to avoid the actual painful and ignominious part, though. That seems like a more reasonable goal. Anyway, this unrealistic goal will keep me practicing forever, I expect. Nothing wrong with that.
It seems to me that the core distinguishing feature of contemporary Mahayana, and the primary reason it dominates the Buddhist world, is that it tries to take the fruits of the practice and put them to work in the midst of the defilements of everyday life. So what Lejon is proposing sounds like typical Mahayana philosophy to me. And if he wants to develop the Hinayana* path first, I think that will be very productive. Contemporary Mahayana schools don't give enough emphasis to development of concentration and the flexibility of practice it requires, at least Tibetan Buddhism and Zen as I learned them.
Sure, he is going to get his ass kicked repeatedly, because what he wants to do is very hard, probably impossible. I don't really see the harm, though.
*Hopefully the citations I've made in this thread show that I am using this term in a purely technical, nondisparaging sense.
My understanding is that Right View is a result not an aim.
And that it results from mindfulness of how things are.
So what I suggest you need to do is develop mindfulness of what is arising in the present.
And it has nothing directly to do with having sex or not, or having a glass of wine or not..unless you are a monk.
And you certainly do not have to wear white clothes, unless you want to.
There are a number of ways to develop mindfulness. Its quite likely that in your neighbourhood someone can teach you the basics.
Many thanks :clap:
The reason I'm wearing white clothes has nothing to do with my desire to learn right view or at least very little. It makes me feel pure, clean and they keep me reminded on what I'm doing, they also show everyone else what I'm doing so they hopefully do not disturb me. Well, as I wrote above I do not teach now so I can not provide a teaching on that now. But I can tell you a little about "better how and in what way stronger"
"Better how?"
Less harmfull to my surroundings, no lies, be respectful, be kind, helpful. Things like that...I hope you get the picture of how I try to be a better human. It's really basic stuff that this world is lacking in a major way today.
"In what way stronger?"
Physicaly stronger, mentaly stronger, emotionaly stronger. Stronger in anyway possible. I have a strong beliefe that a human who is stronger lives a longer and happier life. I do NOT talk about body building steroid using stronger.
I hope I have been clear with as little misunderstandings as possible. But sometimes it feels your posts comes from another discussion you are having with yourself or someone other than me, it is several times I get "attacked" on something that I did not even say. I do enjoy the discussion with you but I only for you to be respectful and I will do my best to be the same.
I learn a lot from you! This is very much appreciated, thank you! For example I have learned that I will have to take up my meditation again. But I need to find a space for it in my life because I do not want to squezze it in between work and training and the rest of the things I'm doing, that has never worked before. This time I will make room for meditation and if I'm lucky maybe I can meditate at one of the two temples in my area, my home is quite noisy sometimes. I do also have a cat who hardly will leave me alone that long, lol. The thing about these temples I would like to say is one is a theravada and the other one is chinese and I do not know what kind that is because I have never really wanted to know but know I would like to just visit and ask. Everyday on my early morning walk I walk on the road that goes right in the middle of the, they are right next to each other.
Well, gotta go work some more.
Metta to you all!
Excellent and inspiring aspirations. Understood.
Harmonising, balancing and growing in the Middle Way will strengthen that potential. One day we find that being challenged is something we welcome. Disrespectful friends challenge us beyond our capacity. Your assumptions and ours are being probed and explored. This is the very kindest and least form of dharma debate. You are indeed being honest, transparent and respectful. Others to the best of their limitations are aiming for the same . . .
:wave: