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What is the best 'descriptive' story of buddhas Enlightenment? What made him enlightened?
My take- The Buddha did set out to find enlightenment when he left his home and began ascetic practice. But, it was only when he gave up his search and accepted the food that was offered to him that he discovered enlightenment in the middle way. By ending his quest he found what he had been looking for and discovered it had always been there.
My take- The Buddha did set out to find enlightenment when he left his home and began ascetic practice. But, it was only when he gave up his search and accepted the food that was offered to him that he discovered enlightenment in the middle way. By ending his quest he found what he had been looking for and discovered it had always been there.
What had always been there???
What is it he saw????
(Ive read many links and stories but i still cant grasp what buddha saw!
I know what i 'saw' but i still would like to know what buddha thought he saw when he attained enlightenment!
Im asking purely outbof interest but people start assuming im suffering and the inly way to find the answer to practice etc etc... But they are missing my point! I just want to know what 'he' saw!
Well, maybe 'saw' is the wrong word. Seeing requires two phenomena. I would suggest that what 'he' realised is that there are not two phenomena, and that there is a path to realising this.
Plotinus explains that only the whole can be one with the whole. This seems to be the reason why the Buddha's enlightement is sometimes described as a cosmic event. It would not be a question of 'what he thought he saw'. In the ordinary sense of the word there was no 'seeing' involved. It was what he is, what we all are, that he 'saw'.
But maybe this is still not an answer. It's not really an answerable question.
You're assuming that awakening is something tangible, graspable, something that can be stuffed inside a conceptual box. The only way to find out IS to practice.
I can describe for you and provide you with a myriad comparisons for what an apple tastes like, but the only way for you to truly find out is to eat it yourself. An apple is no more a concept than awakening is a concept.
"Buddha here" and "awakening there" is the underlying assumption in the question. But actually it is not unlike the very first line of the Daodejing: The way that can be described is not [and implicitly CANNOT BE] the ever-present Way. And yet it IS always available, just like an apple sitting on a table.
Eat the apple!!
Steve Hagen's book Buddhism Plain and Simple is something I'd recommend you read-- the title is fitting and Hagen cuts to the chase. He uses the word "seeing" a lot in it-- but in the sense of personal experience. Still, I think you'd find it useful without getting bogged down in suttas and sutras and and koans and zen-isms-- not that there is anything wrong with any of that, but it is always good to look at it from a different angle too (Hagen incidentally, comes from Soto Zen tradition).
Give Hagen's book a read and it might make more sense. Either that or you need to be beaten with a stick 30 times for asking this question of yours! haha
Not to derail the thread, but to add to @Florian 's thoughts with two relevant passages from Plotinus:
"What then is our course, what manner of our flight? This is not a journey for the feet; the feet bring us only from land to land; nor need you think of coach or ship to carry you away; all this order of things you must set aside and refuse to see: you must close the eyes and call instead upon another vision which is to be awoken within you, a vision, the birthright of all, which few turn to use." ~ Plotinus, Enneads, I.6.8
And:
"Suddenly, a light bursts forth, pure and alone. We wonder whence it came: from the outside, or from the inside? Once it disappears, we say, 'It was inside—and yet, no, it wasn’t inside.' We must not try to learn when it comes, for here there is no 'whence.' The light comes from nowhere, and it goes nowhere; it simply either appears or does not appear. This is why we must not chase after it, but quietly wait for it to appear, preparing ourselves to be spectators, as the eye waits for the rising sun." ~ Plotinus, Enneads, V
http://hauntedpress.net/What_is_Enlightenment.html What the dude says matches what I now know, yep, nothing special, everything . . . kinda special . . . Crusty S Lobster (enlightened by popular demand) :thumbsup:
Yah the mind really wants answers to these questions, I get that. I guess there's a reason why they say the enlightenment is a "tacit understanding". That's all we attain. No answers, simply No more Questions!!:)
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yah the mind really wants answers to these questions, I get that. I guess there's a reason why they say the enlightenment is a "tacit understanding". That's all we attain. No answers, simply No more Questions!!:)
Yes and no, I'd say. Seeing the false assumptions hidden in questions would make most of them go away. The answers would be found in the daftness of the questions. This understanding is not tacit in the case of the Buddha and Lao Tsu. The Buddha talks endlessly, and Lao Tsu puts all the answers in five thousand words.
Comments
The Buddha did set out to find enlightenment when he left his home and began ascetic practice. But, it was only when he gave up his search and accepted the food that was offered to him that he discovered enlightenment in the middle way. By ending his quest he found what he had been looking for and discovered it had always been there.
What is it he saw????
(Ive read many links and stories but i still cant grasp what buddha saw!
I know what i 'saw' but i still would like to know what buddha thought he saw when he attained enlightenment!
Im asking purely outbof interest but people start assuming im suffering and the inly way to find the answer to practice etc etc... But they are missing my point! I just want to know what 'he' saw!
Plotinus explains that only the whole can be one with the whole. This seems to be the reason why the Buddha's enlightement is sometimes described as a cosmic event. It would not be a question of 'what he thought he saw'. In the ordinary sense of the word there was no 'seeing' involved. It was what he is, what we all are, that he 'saw'.
But maybe this is still not an answer. It's not really an answerable question.
I can describe for you and provide you with a myriad comparisons for what an apple tastes like, but the only way for you to truly find out is to eat it yourself. An apple is no more a concept than awakening is a concept.
"Buddha here" and "awakening there" is the underlying assumption in the question. But actually it is not unlike the very first line of the Daodejing: The way that can be described is not [and implicitly CANNOT BE] the ever-present Way. And yet it IS always available, just like an apple sitting on a table.
Eat the apple!!
Steve Hagen's book Buddhism Plain and Simple is something I'd recommend you read-- the title is fitting and Hagen cuts to the chase. He uses the word "seeing" a lot in it-- but in the sense of personal experience. Still, I think you'd find it useful without getting bogged down in suttas and sutras and and koans and zen-isms-- not that there is anything wrong with any of that, but it is always good to look at it from a different angle too (Hagen incidentally, comes from Soto Zen tradition).
Give Hagen's book a read and it might make more sense. Either that or you need to be beaten with a stick 30 times for asking this question of yours! haha
"What then is our course, what manner of our flight? This is not a journey for the feet; the feet bring us only from land to land; nor need you think of coach or ship to carry you away; all this order of things you must set aside and refuse to see: you must close the eyes and call instead upon another vision which is to be awoken within you, a vision, the birthright of all, which few turn to use." ~ Plotinus, Enneads, I.6.8
And:
"Suddenly, a light bursts forth, pure and alone. We wonder whence it came: from the outside, or from the inside? Once it disappears, we say, 'It was inside—and yet, no, it wasn’t inside.' We must not try to learn when it comes, for here there is no 'whence.' The light comes from nowhere, and it goes nowhere; it simply either appears or does not appear. This is why we must not chase after it, but quietly wait for it to appear, preparing ourselves to be spectators, as the eye waits for the rising sun." ~ Plotinus, Enneads, V
What the dude says matches what I now know, yep, nothing special, everything . . . kinda special . . .
Crusty S Lobster (enlightened by popular demand) :thumbsup:
You flatter yourself.....