Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Esoterica now available

lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
When I studied Shingon, I was totally unaware that the teacher was uninitiated and in some aspects fraudulent and abusive. However they also taught things that worked within what I required and considered spiritual at the time. This included martial arts as a spiritual grounding and discipline, dynamic yoga with much corrective and healing and a solitary practice of study and concentration. We might regard such a teacher as having dharma but not sila.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/544010/sila
The worst readily available examples of such 'teaching' is the compliance of the sham students, never acknowledging flawed individuals and even explaining abusive behaviour as . . . well that is for them to justify . . .
Later on we begin to differentiate between sham 'esoterica' and the real nature of hidden or ineffable teachings. Esoteric or hidden dharmas are not magic tricks or techniques which are taught to spiritual conjurers. Such 'witchcraft' keeps some of us chasing rainbow belts or bodies, chakra retuning and 'my little llama' for years. Real inner 'dharma' can not be taught. It can be illustrated, exemplified and enacted. In effect even mundane virtue is hidden by our inability of perception or lack of experience. The 'initiated' always welcome each to share. They will make you better, if that is your goal. They are not the friends of your egos, your sense of worth, your sense of personal spiritual entitlement.
Personal integrity and honesty about where we are, how we perceive and what we know becomes self evident. So many of us sell ourselves to idealised teachers, teachings or paths because of our initial impoverishment. Even a bad teacher might be good enough. Eventually we gain perception. Knowing beyond the form. Seeing the interior, not the 'glamour'. Using the very ordinary life skills of experience, maturity and sustained attunement with a path. Every day a new beginner.
You have been taken in, like me, by false expectations, lazy practice, easy answers and the all too prevalent notion of authentic wisdom. Throw it all away and what is left? For me it is good companionship or a good rhinoceros sutra base, sustained introspection, reflection and study and daily practice. What has been hidden? Nothing.
Jeffrey

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Nice post but be careful of sweeping generalizatios. Some teachers, though human, are the Real McCoy.
    lobsterKundo
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    And even devotion to a poor teacher is the practice of devotion.
    lobster
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited June 2013
    Florian said:

    And even devotion to a poor teacher is the practice of devotion.

    Yes..dumb devotion. Devotion per se devotion is not a panacea.
    Devotion minus Prajna = drooling...Devotion minus Prajna in an invitation to solipsistic projection.
    ;)
    how
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    Devotion is devotion. Everything depends on where are starting from.
    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    Some teachers, though human, are the Real McCoy.

    They are ALL the real McCoy, when we extend as @Florian says our genuine devotion and capacity to realise spiritual teachers as our 'elder' brothers and sisters on the path. It is our genuine nature that sees and understands what is erring human and what is genuine . . . How mature our older siblings seem when we are young . . . what children they are when we age a little . . .
    Eventually a little humility sets in and we learn from all ages of our fellow travellers, beginners and realised, dukkha borne and born to duck.
    :wave:
    Jeffrey
  • It is better to walk your own imperfect 'path'
    Than to walk anothers perfect 'path'
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    It is better to walk your own imperfect 'path'
    Than to walk anothers perfect 'path'

    Better learn to walk before running . . .
    incidentally the path and my imperfection are one . . . just in case one of us lose it . . .
    :wave:
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    The main esoteric practices, which I practiced in 'Shingon'/chen-yen derived teachings, centered around five element practices.
    http://yinyana.tumblr.com/post/31454196568/elements

    As well as the concentration aspect in the above link, we learned five kata that were a physical representation of these five elements. These were done with the aim of developing that specific element in our physical and hence whole being.

    These are animal based forms in Shaolin and beginners pinan kata
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinan

    Before learning kata, I was already doing Chi Kung and find this, though Taoist sourced, is far more natural, meditative, healty and readily availble in Tai Ch classes.

    So the path becomes cantered around our needs and perceptive growth. We all start from a karmic mish mash. Our refinement to the point of refinement no longer being an issue is usually winding and widening . . . :wave:
  • Is that Fed's sister?
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    How does one truly determine is a teacher is a poor teacher or not? Some teachers speak to me more than others, whether solely via books or people I've met in person but I have a hard time claiming any devotion to them because other than my perception when reading their books, I cannot gleam much from their teaching. My teacher is not as good with words, he is still pretty young and his English isn't the best but I am quite devoted to him, in part because he is so devoted to teaching. I see nothing in him that is alarming, but is he a poorer teacher (for me) than someone I've only seen once yet brings about much more insight? Just curious what people's thoughts are. Is having a teacher at all, better than not having one?
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited June 2013
    karasti said:

    Is having a teacher at all, better than not having one?

    Depends if they are hypocrites.

    When I went on an intense Chinese Yoga weekend, Terry Dukes finished teaching the excellent 'yoga' session, we had tea and he had a tobacco roll up cigarette - rather than explain this as a flaw or imperfection. To my amazement other 'yogis' began bringing out cigarettes . . .

    Terry Dukes then explained how the Chinese believed that smoking 'stimulates the lungs' and is therefore considered a way of 'breathing consciously and therefore of benefit to the system'.
    BS. Justifying twaddle - worse, detrimental to others health . . . harming . . .
    which I was too naive to know as drivel. Nobody countered it and during the next break I went and bought cigarettes . . . and promoted this garbage. Through martial arts and yoga I was very fit but smoking is no part of a health regime, it should not have been taught/justified . . .

    Now imagine what self styled 'Shifu' and all round esoteric master was telling women he was seducing or close students . . . I was never close to him, though some people thought I was getting special teaching. It could have been very detrimental . . .

    Fortunately a lot of the Shingon teaching manuals were derived from useful sources and independent practice was encouraged . . .

    Be careful. Be aware. Be sensible. Have multiple resources. Real teachers, good teachers are also available . . . as are the structure of seniors . . .
    karmablues
Sign In or Register to comment.