My Guru Was A Drunk.

robot

wondering said:

Nevermind said:

robot said:

wondering said:

Nevermind said:

wondering said:

Nevermind said:

Well, except for when we experience satisfaction of course.

Of which is an illusion......

That there is only dissatisfaction is the illusion... or rather, narrative.

Keep telling yourself that. It must make you feel good/special/above it all, and one who has the REAL knowledge. Unfortunately that statement is utterly false. Because when you do not feel that everything is OK, then you must believe you have fallen into "wrong view"...( instead of "right view"). Back and forth we go, and it will never stop.

Experience tells us that there is satisfaction and there is suffering. Insight tells us that both are empty because they are dependently arisen and temporary. But they are not illusions.
Either experience could be dependent on an illusion or on a valid cognition.
Like the difference between grieving for someone who has died, or grieving for someone that you believe to be dead, who is not. The grief is the same.
Those feelings are empty, like everything else. Except an illusion.
An illusion cannot be empty because it has no dependent reality at all.
Like the proverbial horns of a rabbit. An illusion is not a valid cognition.
True duality might be what is a valid cognition and what is not.
Does this make any sense?

Illusions are independent and/or permanent?

All gobble-dee-gook to me. I leave that stuff to the philosophers who have non ending discussions about such things.

Then why wade in in the first place?

wondering

Wade? There wasn't even any water here in the first place.

robot

wondering said:

Wade? There wasn't even any water here in the first place.

Then I guess if I said "stick your oar in" it wouldn't make sense either.

wondering

Not to me....but i am sure it would to some people somewhere.

Jeffrey

An illusion is also empty, horns on a rabbit. At least in shentong Buddhism. I can't explain any further because my own view on emptiness is emptiness of skhandas, shravaka, rather than shentong. But my teacher teaches shentong sometimes.

betaboy

wondering said:

a quote

“Whether we eat, sleep, work, play, whatever we do life contains dissatisfaction, pain. If we enjoy pleasure, we are afraid to lose it; we strive for more and more pleasure or try to contain it. If we suffer pain we want to escape it. We experience dissatisfaction all the time. All activities contain dissatisfaction or pain, continuously.”
― Chögyam Trungpa

Only an awakened soul could be so insightful. I think most people envy him because he had the best of both worlds.

Dakini

betaboy said:

wondering said:

a quote

“Whether we eat, sleep, work, play, whatever we do life contains dissatisfaction, pain. If we enjoy pleasure, we are afraid to lose it; we strive for more and more pleasure or try to contain it. If we suffer pain we want to escape it. We experience dissatisfaction all the time. All activities contain dissatisfaction or pain, continuously.”
― Chögyam Trungpa

Only an awakened soul could be so insightful. I think most people envy him because he had the best of both worlds.

This is standard Buddhist teaching. He memorized this as a child studying the required texts in the monastery. It's hardly his own "insight". You can find this in almost any book on Buddhism on the market.

Dakini

Jeffrey said:

I'm not sure it's wrong to marry someone 16.

It was illegal for a 16-year-old to marry in England at the time. Trungpa and Diana had to cross the border into Scotland in order to be legally married, and Diana didn't have parental consent.

It doesn't seem unusual in Tibetan culture for older men to marry teenagers, though. The Dalai Lama's oldest brother married a Tibetan 16-year-old whom he met in Seattle when he was in his early 40's.

how

Negation as a conditioned response is often either the mimicing of a teacher or a prepatory defence for folks fearfull of loss.
All that sustains it is an inability to just be.

Citta

"Jeffrey"> I'm not sure it's wrong to marry someone 16. It was illegal for a 16-year-old to marry in England at the time. Trungpa and Diana had to cross the border into Scotland in order to be legally married, and Diana didn't have parental consent.

It doesn't seem unusual in Tibetan culture for older men to marry teenagers, though. The Dalai Lama's oldest brother married a Tibetan 16-year-old whom he met in Seattle when he was in his early 40's. "...




It has NEVER been illegal for 16 year-olds to marry in England.
It was/is necessary for those under 18 to get written parental consent..
In Scotland that was not necessary.

Just a minor example of those who know nothing about the subject to sound off..
Of all of the many people on this thread who feel they the world needs to know their opinion on the subject of CTR only two had actual first hand knowledge. The other one being Genkaku...
Which is why I regret raising it in the first place..it just opened the door for a lot of empty speculation and projection.

Nevermind

robot said:

Nevermind said:

robot said:

wondering said:

Nevermind said:

wondering said:

Nevermind said:

Well, except for when we experience satisfaction of course.

Of which is an illusion......

That there is only dissatisfaction is the illusion... or rather, narrative.

Keep telling yourself that. It must make you feel good/special/above it all, and one who has the REAL knowledge. Unfortunately that statement is utterly false. Because when you do not feel that everything is OK, then you must believe you have fallen into "wrong view"...( instead of "right view"). Back and forth we go, and it will never stop.

Experience tells us that there is satisfaction and there is suffering. Insight tells us that both are empty because they are dependently arisen and temporary. But they are not illusions.
Either experience could be dependent on an illusion or on a valid cognition.
Like the difference between grieving for someone who has died, or grieving for someone that you believe to be dead, who is not. The grief is the same.
Those feelings are empty, like everything else. Except an illusion.
An illusion cannot be empty because it has no dependent reality at all.
Like the proverbial horns of a rabbit. An illusion is not a valid cognition.
True duality might be what is a valid cognition and what is not.
Does this make any sense?

Illusions are independent and/or permanent?

Neither, they have no existence whatsoever. Everything that exists does so dependently.
But that is my understanding. Could be wrong.

Dumb question I'm sure, but if they have no existence whatsoever how do we know them?

Dakini

Citta said:

It has NEVER been illegal for 16 year-olds to marry in England.
It was/is necessary for those under 18 to get written parental consent..
In Scotland that was not necessary.


Which is why I regret raising it in the first place..it just opened the door for a lot of empty speculation and projection.

It was illegal without parental consent. That's why they had to go to Scotland.

It's pretty easy to ask for a thread to be closed, Citta.

Citta

I did.
But clearly that would deprive people of the opportunity for obtruse philosophical musings and/or moral panic and viewing life through their own self imposed lens...
And we can't have that can we...?
Much nicer to all create a warm cosy miasma of tutting and back patting and self congratulation at our own superiority...even though none of us will do a 1000th of what the object of our opprobrium achieved for Dharma in his short life.

rivercane

One shouldn't have to ask for a thread to be closed. We should all show respect when interacting with each other, even if we disagree with something.

Citta

I did a grave disservice to my Root Guru . I am in breach of my vows.

Nevermind

You wouldn't be the first.

Citta

My breaches are my responsibility. The breaches of others are not.

Nevermind

I thought it might make you feel better to not be the first. :-/

Chaz

Zero said:

In order to derail the discussion and assist in alleviating your regret... here is a picture of some chillis that look like cocks...

Dude, that is sick, twisted and wrong.

Best derail attempt I've seen in months!

Chaz

I've seen my Guru drunk. Once. Second time I was around him. It's wasn't falling-down, stinking, shit-faced drunk, but he was feeling pretty good. There was a lot of Drala in the room that night. He was telling stories about CTR. Strangely ironic.

Chaz

Monday night I'm going to a Sukhavati for a student of CTR's who died two days ago. I suppose we'll go out for for a bite afterward. Maybe have a glass of wine while we reminisce about our friend and his devotion to his guru. Irony again?

Citta

Chaz said:

Monday night I'm going to a Sukhavati for a student of CTR's who died two days ago. I suppose we'll go out for for a bite afterward. Maybe have a glass of wine while we reminisce about our friend and his devotion to his guru. Irony again?

Bit of synchronicity perhaps. Threads about CTR seem to be everywhere on the internet at the moment..not sure why. Its not an anniversary.

federica

Unless the OP specifically asks for this to be reopened, with good cause, I think this is about done here.

Just a hint:

If you want a thread closed, either flag it, or send a PM to a Moderator. Best and most effective way to bring something to our attention, quickly.

We will act accordingly/as appropriate.

Thanks.