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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited May 2006
How would you know....??
What would you be able to do, anyway - ?!?
You are attaching far too much importance to the Self - there is nothing to be attached to...
Your Five skandas are impermanent and transitory - they are Not Who You Are...Once they pass out of your domain, you have no control, and you have no right to attempt to control....
Whomsoever receives your organs must decide for themselves what to do with your gift - and thus it is their karma in the making - not yours....
As you are already Dead, you are working with the consequences of your own karma.... deal with that.
Wonder what the Ariyas thought about organ donation?
I'd stick to my opinion. If you want my organs, do something good and share the merits. Do I care after I die? Why bother to ponder.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited May 2006
On a practical level, you have to realise that organs have a shelf-life - many can't be put into storage, but have to be used within hours of removal from the donor body....If someone - no matter whom - needs a heart-lung transplant, and you match up to the requirements - Regal or Robber, they'll get your organs - !
And attempting to be judgemental about who gets what after you die, is also illogical, partial, judgemental and conditional. In other words, not very Buddhist, really.......
Do I care after I die? Why bother to ponder.
Well in that case - what the heck have you been discussing this for - ?
Do we as Buddhist have a general consensus to organ donation.
I bet, the Tibetans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Theravadas etc. have differing views.
Is it Buddhist to question? Do you question donating to entities that would harm society? I hope not. Kamma, selflessness and fatalism are like brothers and sisters to the undiscerning
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited May 2006
I have lost the point of your discussion, and fear that I would merely repeat myself.
Either I do not understand you, or you do not understand me.
Try this: die-light-black-deities-rebirth-live-die (repeat dream ad infinitum)
Does that about sum it up?
How about, "Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring"
By the way, there's a Korean Buddhist movie with the same title. Good cinematography, if somebody saw it, please explain why the monk commits suicide by fire.
Do we as Buddhist have a general consensus to organ donation.
I bet, the Tibetans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Theravadas etc. have differing views.
Is it Buddhist to question? Do you question donating to entities that would harm society? I hope not. Kamma, selflessness and fatalism are like brothers and sisters to the undiscerning
I am wary of discussing the appropriateness or right action of organ donation. The speculation of which is like discussing Metaphysics, regardless of the answer the problem of your liberation is still the same. :winkc:
Would whoever use your organ take responsibility of it under his mental karma?
Since you would've died, I can see no point in how it would link back to you, I mean, would the Self that you are reborn into be not the Self that donated the organs?
Of course, people would curse and swear at the Self in grave for letting him live, but so is the transplant doctor, his family, the nurses, their families, the hospital's patrons and founders etc. etc. Man can never stop at finding people to blame for stuff.
Meanwhile, those really hardcore pro-life advocates would be thanking the Self in the grave still, as will they thank the transplant doctor, his family, the nurses, their families, the hospital's patrons and founders etc. etc. Man can never stop at finding people to thank for stuff either.
Why care? I mean, while you may not be concerned with his mental karma, you are definitely concerned about your own. But would you not have already died with your mental karma bag full with "saving a life"? You meant no harm anyway.
Has anyone else noticed a growing attitude of tapu about dead bodies? Where we once accepted that the dead were dead, we are now filling graves with grave goods again and worrying about organ retention as well as donation.
Future archaelogists will have great fun with all this. We could tell the difference, in Romano-British burial sites, between Christian and non-Christian ("Pagan") burials because Christians did not include grave goods. We are in danger of becoming as superstitious as those 'pagans'.
Months ago, we wrote about "sky burial" where the body is fed to the vultures. Look at the scenes around HHDL's father's death and dismemberment in Scorsese's film Kundun.
To me tapu can be as good as it is be as bad. It very much depends on the attitude of whoever places the tapu in... Which vaguely can be linked back to our question of organ donation.
Do you exponents of no self really know there is no giver, receiver or received?
Just imagine a donated organ revitalises hitler. I guessed saving a life is a good thing. the ultimate compassion. I withdraw.
On the contrary, little brother Ajani, I am concerned that tapu goes unrecognised. The 'secular' world appears to have lost the wise who taught what was and was not tapu. Soldiers invade mosques and temples in their boots; the sacred places of our ancestors are defiled; and the young are not taught the vital importance of respect towards the powers of the Earth and Sky.
All this can be taught without recourse to the shackles of religious crap but many, many more will die for want of knowing. On the most "mundane" level, only those who do not understand and revere the powers around us could go on building housing for thousands on floodplains!
Comments
What would you be able to do, anyway - ?!?
You are attaching far too much importance to the Self - there is nothing to be attached to...
Your Five skandas are impermanent and transitory - they are Not Who You Are...Once they pass out of your domain, you have no control, and you have no right to attempt to control....
Whomsoever receives your organs must decide for themselves what to do with your gift - and thus it is their karma in the making - not yours....
As you are already Dead, you are working with the consequences of your own karma.... deal with that.
Worry about YOU, not anyone else.
I'd stick to my opinion. If you want my organs, do something good and share the merits. Do I care after I die? Why bother to ponder.
And attempting to be judgemental about who gets what after you die, is also illogical, partial, judgemental and conditional. In other words, not very Buddhist, really.......
Well in that case - what the heck have you been discussing this for - ?
I bet, the Tibetans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Theravadas etc. have differing views.
Is it Buddhist to question? Do you question donating to entities that would harm society? I hope not. Kamma, selflessness and fatalism are like brothers and sisters to the undiscerning
Either I do not understand you, or you do not understand me.
How about, "Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring"
By the way, there's a Korean Buddhist movie with the same title. Good cinematography, if somebody saw it, please explain why the monk commits suicide by fire.
I am wary of discussing the appropriateness or right action of organ donation. The speculation of which is like discussing Metaphysics, regardless of the answer the problem of your liberation is still the same. :winkc:
Since you would've died, I can see no point in how it would link back to you, I mean, would the Self that you are reborn into be not the Self that donated the organs?
Of course, people would curse and swear at the Self in grave for letting him live, but so is the transplant doctor, his family, the nurses, their families, the hospital's patrons and founders etc. etc. Man can never stop at finding people to blame for stuff.
Meanwhile, those really hardcore pro-life advocates would be thanking the Self in the grave still, as will they thank the transplant doctor, his family, the nurses, their families, the hospital's patrons and founders etc. etc. Man can never stop at finding people to thank for stuff either.
Why care? I mean, while you may not be concerned with his mental karma, you are definitely concerned about your own. But would you not have already died with your mental karma bag full with "saving a life"? You meant no harm anyway.
Future archaelogists will have great fun with all this. We could tell the difference, in Romano-British burial sites, between Christian and non-Christian ("Pagan") burials because Christians did not include grave goods. We are in danger of becoming as superstitious as those 'pagans'.
Months ago, we wrote about "sky burial" where the body is fed to the vultures. Look at the scenes around HHDL's father's death and dismemberment in Scorsese's film Kundun.
To me tapu can be as good as it is be as bad. It very much depends on the attitude of whoever places the tapu in... Which vaguely can be linked back to our question of organ donation.
Just imagine a donated organ revitalises hitler. I guessed saving a life is a good thing. the ultimate compassion. I withdraw.
All this can be taught without recourse to the shackles of religious crap but many, many more will die for want of knowing. On the most "mundane" level, only those who do not understand and revere the powers around us could go on building housing for thousands on floodplains!