Patience

ThailandTom

I have read the thread that is in dedicated to 'how long does it take to understand Buddhism' and it inspired me to share something. I have not posted in that thread because even though the question is a totally normal question many people would have, I myself would have way too much to say as it is such a broad question about something that can be looked at in so many different ways.

Anyway I think one of the key aspects to Buddhism and understanding the path is patience, in fact this is so important it is vital one immerses oneself into each unsatisfactory and mundane feeling you may experience such as restlessness, boredom and agitation. These may seem like trivial states of mind but they occur to us all often daily and are a very good starting point for investigating the mind and how we interact with our world.

Ajahn Sumedho says in his book 'The Way It Is' something very profound about his insight into the importance of patience. When he was a young monk up in Northern Thailand he was studying under Ajahn Chah. He could not speak Thai or as that dialect is in the North basically Laotian, but he had to sit for 3 hours and listen to talks Ajahn Chah would give. He speaks about how he sat there getting so angry from the first 5 minutes and how he wanted to just leave the place but could not muster up the courage to do so. He sat there for the duration with all of these feelings of not wanting to be, wanting to change the conditions so he control his setting to be set up for his practice and then Ajahn Chah looked down at him with a smile and said "are you ok?" and in that instant all of his anger went away, it just vanished. It is funny how such a strong sense of anger can simply vanish in an instant like that.

After that day he realised where he was going wrong with his practice, he had no patience and wanted to control things, to set up the world and his setting so he could practice in the way he wanted to. Life is not like this, life is vastly uncontrollable so we have to learn to accept things for how they are, this requires a lot of effort and patience. Ajahn Sumedho made it his duty to sit there every week for those 3 hour talks even though he barely understood a word he was saying, he says that Western Buddhists came and soon left because they wanted instant enlightenment, they wanted it all now. This is a wrong view to have and wanting it will drive you further away from it. Patience is vital in ones practice.

lobster

Would what you describe also be something to do with forbearance?

ThailandTom

lobster said:

Would what you describe also be something to do with forbearance?

Do you refer to it with any specification?

lobster

You have specified patience, however waiting by a foxhole for a rabbit, is patience doomed to failure. So in this sense, just sitting is patient but not very productive . . .
Forbearance as 'Tolerance and restraint in the face of provocation' of the ego - to not sit, dictate what is progress, be clever, find false routing etc combines the element of accepting the restraint and patience of time with the acceptance of our innate inaptitude to be patient . . .
In one sense it is two elements of patience, wisdom - time and skill related and compassion, kindness in terms of our and others shortcomings . . . :wave:

Jeffrey

Patience doesn't necessarily mean waiting. So waiting by the rabbit hole *would* be patience, but only if you were undivided knowing mindfully that your mind is constantly working on its own.

Forbearance is a different paramita than patience.
http://www.naljorprisondharmaservice.org/pdf/SixParamitas.htm

Patience

This paramita is the enlightened quality of patience, tolerance, forbearance, and acceptance. The essence of this paramita of patience is the strength of mind and heart that enables us to face the challenges and difficulties of life without losing our composure and inner tranquility. We embrace and forbear adversity, insult, distress, and the wrongs of others with patience and tolerance, free of resentment, irritation, emotional reactivity, or retaliation. We cultivate the ability to be loving and compassionate in the face of criticism, misunderstanding, or aggression. With this enlightened quality of patience, we are neither elated by praise, prosperity, or agreeable circumstances, nor are we angry, unhappy or depressed when faced with insult, challenge, hardship, or poverty. This enlightened attribute of patience, acceptance, and tolerance is not a forced suppression or denial of our thoughts and feelings. Rather, it is a quality of being which comes from having our heart open and our mind deeply concentrated upon the Dharma.

::snip::

forbearance (is joyful)

This paramita is the enlightened quality of energy, vigor, vitality, endurance, diligence, enthusiasm, continuous and persistent effort. In order to practice the first three paramitas of generosity, virtuous conduct, and patience in the face of difficulties, we need this paramita of joyous effort and perseverance. Joyous effort makes the previous paramitas increase and become even more powerful influences in our life. The essence of this paramita of joyous effort is the courage, energy, and endurance to continuously practice the Dharma and pursue the supreme goal of enlightenment for the highest good of all beings. From a feeling of deep compassion for the suffering of all sentient beings, we are urged to unfailing, persistent, and joyous effort. We use our body, speech, and mind to work ceaselessly and untiringly for the benefit of others, with no expectations for personal recognition or reward. We are always ready to serve others to the best of our ability. With joyous effort, devoted energy, and the power of sustained application, we practice the Dharma without getting sidetracked by anything or falling under the influence of laziness.

::snip::

These paramitas are not evident until our samsaric view is totally shaken and our conventional views fall apart.

The paramitas are: generosity, ethics, patience, forbearance, concentration, wisdom.

I can see how joyful forbearance helps concentration and the others.

lobster

forbearance (is joyful)

:bowdown:

Can you say something about the relationship of patience to ethics/sila?
Would you say ethical behaviour is a natural arising or inherent aspect of enlightened being? Is there such a thing as 'bad boy Buddhas'? Do we just have to show patient forbearance?

Jeffrey

The first five paramitas are skills developed for relieving suffering for self and others. There could not be a 'bad boy Buddha' who is a suffering being. All Buddhas realize the 6th skhanda of prajnaparamita and then they cultivate the other five as they are able.

Ethics can be generosity which makes them a gift you give to others. You surely need patience to practice ethics, particularly if you have this 'bad boy' flavor and get carried away. It's all a gift to self and others. All of the paramitas are interwoven in the bodhicitta.

ThailandTom

I think if practiced properly with accordance with the 8 fold path each trait should sprout out of each other. Patience brings wisdom which causes compassion which generates loving kindness and so forth. All of these traits seem to be connected and arise from the conditions you create, they can be considered to be connected in this way I feel.

But quite simply if you refer back to the 8 fold path in your practice from time to time it should keep you on your toes and heading in the right direction. Having patience here is to realize that we are not actually trying to get anywhere or become anything, lose anything or destroy anything, we are trying to not try and to just be patient with life itself.

lobster

All of these traits seem to be connected

Indeed.
One thing leads to another . . .
We develop confidence in the dharma, we develop a calming practice. We find good company. We encourage virtue etc.
If we shift. The whole balance of potential for others changes . . . all connected . . .