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The people you associate with
Bunks
Australia Veteran
Hi all
I was just thinking about something I find contradictory in buddhsim. Interested to hear others thoughts too.
On the one hand I've read things stating that we shouldn't associate with fools and that the "Sangha" (similarly spiritual people) are all of the holy path and the only people with which we should associate.
However, I think it is detrimental to our growth to only associate with those that are pleasant and never "push our buttons" (so to speak). How are we to develop spiritually unless we have people around us who make us angry and irritable? These are the emotions we need to be able to open to. We should thank these people.
I was just thinking about something I find contradictory in buddhsim. Interested to hear others thoughts too.
On the one hand I've read things stating that we shouldn't associate with fools and that the "Sangha" (similarly spiritual people) are all of the holy path and the only people with which we should associate.
However, I think it is detrimental to our growth to only associate with those that are pleasant and never "push our buttons" (so to speak). How are we to develop spiritually unless we have people around us who make us angry and irritable? These are the emotions we need to be able to open to. We should thank these people.
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Comments
2. However, I've never heard that we should only associate with our sangha and holy people.
But then there is also the 'dharma gift' that foolish or annoying people bring.
It depends on what you can handle. When you are well rooted in the faith of the triple gem then annoying people are a dharma treasure. Have you heard of the bengali tea boy? The bengali tea boy is part of a teacher who brought him to Tibet because he heard that all the Tibetans were agreeable and thus he needed someone to be as grit and develope compassion. It turns out that he needn't have done that as Tibetans too were flawed.
Ok now fast forward to my life. I have two friends who are drinkers heavily if not alcholics. Without knowing too much I would speculate that they are alcoholics. They are my two elementary school friends. I have avoided meeting with them in environments of drinking because I myself have been LIKE a drunk though I am not a genetic alcoholic. So in this case I am following the rhinocerus sutra and avoiding 'fools'. I might drunk drive even, and clearly some caution is needed. That would be if I lost my judgement through heedlessness. I have drunk driven in my 20s; I am lucky to be alive and not incarcerated.
At the same time it is also crucial to meet experience whether it is salty or sweet or drunken or sober. They are part of my past connections and in the future I will try to meet with them in a way that doesn't jeopardize my own sobriety.
Ananda, Lord Buddha's long-time personal attendant and monk-disciple, asks Buddha:
"Lord, is it true what has been said, that good spiritual friends are fully half of the holy life?"
The Master replied, "No, Ananda, good spiritual friends are the whole of the holy life. Find refuge in the sangha community."
I have one good mate in particular who likes to party hard, take drugs, drink and generally have a good time.
I am in a similar position to you in that I am starting to adjust my time with him so that I only see him when his and / or my wife and kids are present. That way we are sensible.
Having said that, I am going on a 4 day trip with him to Adelaide in December to "watch cricket". Man, that will be messy! I have said to myself that this will be the last time I am going away on a boozy trip like this. While it's fun at the time, in the long term it's not what I want to do anymore.
Buddhist groups or schools with a cultish flavor often emphasize the keeping of ones social connections within the Buddhist Sangha but this is just their own self serving twaddle.
On the other extreme is other Buddhist groups and schools who encourage the social behavior of their Sangha's to conform to monastic rules.
The former is isolationist in form where the latter is not understanding the differences between the lay & ordained worlds.
In between these two is the middle way which allows your social interactions to simply be a reflection of your meditation practice where ever you happen to find yourself.
PS
Buddhist Sangha's are notorious for "button pushing".
During my university years I was very much a no-drugs-period-ever type of person...which wasn't easy during the 1970s. I started to become good friends with a fellow geology major, and then when we went on a multi-day field experience and were supposed to bunk together, I discovered him smoking pot. End of friendship. Many times over the years I have regretted that action. In fact, in a life with not too many regrets, that was one of the major regrets. I repeated the mistake with a student in my early years of teaching. Again, one of the major regrets of my life.
I wish I had done what you are doing -- continuing the association, but in the right/limited environment.
What's done is done, but lesson learned.
I remember trying to explain the expression "taking the mickey" (having a joke at someone else's expense) to an American guy once and he just could never quite get it right.
He'd stroll up to me and say "So, you been gettin' the mickey lately Luke?" Hmmmmmm.....not quite!
The company you keep is the company you become. That being said we live in the world with it's people, and all of its problems. Through it, hopefully we improve our practice, question our assumptions and our selves. We should strive to have close associations that will foster the N8, this does not mean we don't live in the world or ignore the world, on the contrary it helps us in this world and the challenges that come with this life.
While the Sangha can be supportive of your attempts to follow a Buddhist path, the Sangha is just a wide representation of folks who happen to be attracted to Buddhism.
There is often a misconception that they are something more than this. The process by which they will naturally disillusion you of this, is where your buttons will be pushed.
Ordinary folks, under the pressure of honestly facing their own demon, often splurt out their own issues. Someone who is working on issues that match yours can often be threatened by your own practise and the list goes on & on.
In short, a Sangha, like a monastery, is really a spiritual pressure cooker.
Getting cooked is the point, staying safely raw is not.
If the buttons of Sangha members are not being pushed, then you probably have either just passed on into a heaven realm (good luck with being motivated to practice there) or
that's one stagnated group of practitioners.
The practice is about how you react to your buttons being pushed, not trying to find a place where they can't be pushed. That is what separates a Buddhist meditation practice from a trance practice.
and
find some fools to be quite spiritual
:buck:
. . . another example is the 'my Buddha has a big butt and wears a thong' thread.
We all have concepts of self, other and Buddha. We all align with groups, sangha and behaviour. We all have preferred thoughts, insights and dharma.
That is natural. If we coalesce, tighten around certainties we become entwined with our impediments. Strangled by them.
As we start to recognise other people through different experiences are equally befuddled, we loosen our grip on 'our', 'me', 'my opinion', 'my advanced wisdom', 'I am only a beginner' etc.
In essence we unfold, like a lotus blooming . . .
Not so hard.
Ye s When our practice is matured maybe.The ajarn compared these difficult mosquitos to be our teachers .
People come with a lot of different asset's and disregarding any association based on only one piece within that package isn't the way to go IMO. I must also mention I don't consider myself entirely a buddhist either though I incorporate a lot of it's teachings into my life.
I mean, it would be wrong to be so derned judgmental about others as not to allow ourselves to go near them or for them to touch us in any way. But, on the other hand, one can choose not to associate with people whose ways are poisonous either to one's spiritual endeavours or even morale. We're all on the same ship together, but no one has to hang out in the oil tanks. Why, if you have the means you can hang out in the dinner suites.
We should indeed thank these people for teaching us how we choose not to be.