Is Pure Land Buddhism entirely faith-based?

DaftChris

As some of you know, I take practice and inspiration from two primary sources: Non-Dualistic Hinduism (most likely Kashmir Shaivism) and Buddhism.

One thing I love about both traditions, is their emphasis on knowledge, compassion and good works. Sure, you may have faith in God or the Boddhisattvas, but they are not the most important parts of your practice. How you act and treat others are. However, like with any religion, you are bound to have schools which place faith above knowledge or good works and compassion. In Hinduism, one could argue that ISKCON and, to an extent, Swaminarayan are faith based schools.

In Buddhism, isn't the Pure Land school primarily based on faith in Amitabha? I've heard many people say that if one puts their full trust/faith in Amitabha, then they will be reborn in the Pure Land; which sounds very similar to another religion which most people are familiar with. Doesn't this kind of go against the notion of finding one's own truth and not believing in something, just because it is written in a holy book or said by a holy man?

Kundo

That's a really good question @DaftChris. I'd be interested to hear from those more knowledgable in Pure Land about it.

In metta,
Raven

hermitwin

Yes. All you need to do is chant amitabha’s name.
But not any old chant, you must be totally ’sincere’.
Otherwise, you can chant a lifetime and its no good.
But, if you are sincere, then you will be reborn in
Western Paradise or “pure land” (hence the name).

And from there is a guaranteed path to enlightenment.

Sounds too good to be true ???

Takuan

There is this misconception out there that Pure Land "lacks" something, or that it "goes against" Mahayana thought. This is not quite correct. In fact, Pure Land has just as much legitimacy as any other school of Mahayana Buddhism. One just needs to do the research.

Recommended Reading:

Heart of the Shin Buddhist Path by Takamaro Shigaraki
River of Fire, River of Water by Taitetsu Unno
Tannisho by Shinran (after reading the first two suggestions)

Thich Nhat Hanh has a book on Pure Land as well. I just forget the name.

It should also be noted that Ch'an Buddhists have historically chanted nienfo/nembutsu "namu Amida Butsu" and practiced sitting meditation. This can be seen in China, Korea, Vietnam, and Taiwan today.

I hope this helps!

Silouan

I became very interested in the Tibetan Buddhist interpretation of Pure Land after reading Kalu Rinpoche's book "Luminous Mind", and then began to investigate other Buddhist sources about it. It was after reading Thich Nhat Hanhs book "Living Buddha, Living Christ" that the pieces were set for my conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

Faith for both Pure Land and Orthodoxy means trust, so either one develops trust and confidence in the compassion and love of Amitabha or Christ, where it grows and deepens with experience, so it shouldn’t be considered blind.

Trust without works is dead, but unlike the Protestant misconception of the term works here is considered an expression of that trust, so if one has trust in Amitabha one’s actions should be in accordance with that trust.

However, I find assertions that non-retrogression is only possible with trust in Amitabha and being reborn in his Pure Land, but not for union with the self-emptying mind of Christ in the state of heaven absurd.

cvalue

Have trust in Amitabha Buddha is only the first condition of many conditions to achieve rebirth in Pure Land.

We must trust that Gautama Buddha didn't lie when he introduced Amitabha Buddha and his 48 vows to us. If we don't believe that, why bother to practice Pure Land?

We must trust our ability to achieve rebirth in Pure Land if we practice hard enough. Nothing can be achieved without this self confidence. In order to do that we must forget about all bad things that we did in the past, vow to change from now on and drop every thing to concentrate on Pure Land practice.

Without help from Amitabha Buddha, we will never get to Western Pure Land by ourselves. Would you ask for help from somebody that you don't trust?

That's why without this trust, we can't achieve Pure Land rebirth.

Silouan

If love and compassion is something to be forced upon then a persons liberty is violated and this is something else entirely, but if it is given it then becomes entirely dependent upon one to freely receive or reject it, so in this respect it is ultimately up to each person, because neither Amitabha or Christ violate a person's liberty with their love and compassion.

Jainarayan

Silouan said:

Faith for both Pure Land and Orthodoxy means trust, so either one develops trust and confidence in the compassion and love of Amitabha or Christ, where it grows and deepens with experience, so it shouldn’t be considered blind. ...

However, I find assertions that non-retrogression is only possible with trust in Amitabha and being reborn in his Pure Land, but not for union with the self-emptying mind of Christ in the state of heaven absurd.

Do I understand this correctly to mean that faith in Amitabha and in Christ, to be born into or enter the Pure Land or Heaven, respectively, are non-different? If so then this is not unlike the verses from the Bhagavad Gita wherein Krishna says:

"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." 18.65

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." 18.66

If so, then these are three iterations of the same concept, with slightly different flavors. I'm just trying to see if there's a parallel amongst the three. I see one with Jesus and Krishna; I think I see one with Amitabha. Do correct me if I'm wrong, since I'd like to understand.

cvalue

Reciting Amitabha name is a form of meditation, it's different from worshiping. Believing in your own ability to achieve rebirth in Pure Land with the help of Amitabha Buddha is not blind faith. Anyway, there are many Buddha Lands, Western Pure Land is only one of them. If we think we can attaint enlightenment on our own, we don't need Amitabha Buddha. Pure Land is not heaven, it's a university. In order to be admitted to this school, we must apply for it. There are 9 levels in Pure Land, from beginner to very advanced level. The graduation degree is to become Buddha. Depending on our ability, we will be admitted as beginner or higher. But we must apply first.

Because Pure Land is not heaven, there is no promising of pleasure on it. It's only a very favorable environment for studying and meditation.

As an alternative, we don't have to do anything at all, just 10 seconds before our brain dies, we recite Amitabha 10 times without stopping. It's a form of application to Pure Land. But it's a very risky strategy!

Silouan

@Jainarayan Yes, I believe you are correct. There are very strong parallels amongst them, and as an aside union with God does require the dropping of all conceptions, or views if you prefer.

Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism have many traditions that seem to be infused with all kinds of ideas and notions taken from the various cultures they bloom in. For me the distinction between the northern Buddhist traditions and ancient traditional Christianity can in essence be blurred at times.

However, I think from a Theravada perspective these would be variations of sassatavada or eternalism, but somebody more familiar with that tradition would have to confirm.

Jainarayan

Thanks @Silouan. It's nice to know my sense of discernment is intact at times.

You are very right about dropping all conceptions, or maybe pre-conceptions and pre-conceived notions. In my trippy worldview maybe it's like preferring to sing Adeste Fidelis or O Come All Ye Faithful... what's your pleasure, Latin or English? Same melody and idea. Jesus, Krishna or Amitabha? Pretty much the same method and goal, just variation: Middle Eastern, South Asian or East Asian.

Ekam sat viprah bahudha vadanti, "One truth the wise know by many names" from the Rig Veda.

Jainarayan

cvalue said:

As an alternative, we don't have to do anything at all, just 10 seconds before our brain dies, we recite Amitabha 10 times without stopping. It's a form of application to Pure Land. But it's a very risky strategy!

Hmm... another parallel to the Bhagavad Gita: if you think of or recite the name of Krishna at the time you "quit the body", you are sure to go to him. I guess also similar to a Christian repenting on their deathbed. The Pascha Sermon of St. John Chrysostom lays it out.

cvalue

Many Chinese Buddhists reject Pure Land and practice Zen only. Others say that in the end they all accomplish the same thing. Some say because reciting Amitabha's name is a form of meditation, so after practicing for a long time, one can achieve the state of mind like Pure Land on this earth. Some like master Chin Kung, at the beginning, he couldn't accept Pure Land either, but after studying Mayahana Sutras for many years, he believes it. The point is Gautama Buddha and his first followers would not violate the first precept to lie about it. Through very deep and very advanced meditation, Gautama Buddha can see and understand many things that we can't even imagine it. That's why he is a Buddha and we are not. And if we don't believe in Gautama Buddha then what are we doing here, in NewBuddhist forum?

And it was not blind faith in my case. It's just open minded. Like centuries ago if you tell people about things that we have now like phone, TV... would they believe?

And to travel to the nearest star would take us 600 million light years. How do you know for sure there is nothing else out there, outside the planet earth. I just keep my mind open.

cvalue

And for dying people who sincerely repent at the last minute, it's a good thing that it's not too late for them. Most near death experience (NDE) people describe their visions of bright light, of God, of tunnels, of their out of bodies experience. I don't think they lie. NDE is not approved by mainstream scientists, but that only means because they can't prove it. It's too bad that scientists have become arrogant and close the door to more research on this.

cvalue

Sorry, correction: 600 light years instead of 600 million light years.

Jainarayan

cvalue said:

And for dying people who sincerely repent at the last minute, it's a good thing that it's not too late for them. Most near death experience (NDE) people describe their visions of bright light, of God, of tunnels, of their out of bodies experience. I don't think they lie. NDE is not approved by mainstream scientists, but that only means because they can't prove it. It's too bad that scientists have become arrogant and close the door to more research on this.

I agree with you on all these points. However, I think there are some scientists, few they may be, who take this seriously. As for whether a person sees angels, Jesus, a buddha, a bodhisattva, a Hindu deity, or a nondescript light, I think it depends on the person's religious (or none) persuasions. There's a saying that God (substitute Gautama Buddha, or Krishna or ... ) shows himself in a way meaningful to the believer. Or that nondescript light for a non-theist or atheist. I for one believe this has merit (no pun intended).