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Objectively observing the thoughts.
So I've finally come to grasp, yet not master, the concentration aspect of meditation. I can enjoy focusing my entire thought on the air flowing through my nostrils; when distracted I bring the thought back to my breath which yields this enjoyable intangible sensation.
Now the trivial aspect is the "being mindful about the intruding thoughts and observe them objectively" part. When I approach this step I am unable to view it objectively, maybe I don't know how. I get entangled in it, and am forced to ignore it quickly as it appears, and refocus on my breath. I hear this is not good. I must accept the distraction and be mindful of them. I shouldn't repress them. But how can one be mindful of these thoughts?
Example. A sexual fantasy occurs–one of the many annoying features of being a man–and if I observe it, I become entangled with it.
The thought of due-bills occurs, when I attempt to observe this thought, I am suddenly worrying about an array of financially related matters, etc.
In other words, whenever I attempt to be mindful of the intruding thoughts during meditation, I feel I become engaged with them, upon realization I eventually return to my breath, yet this remains unsatisfactory as I feel that I haven't "conquered" the thought.
What do you think?
Now the trivial aspect is the "being mindful about the intruding thoughts and observe them objectively" part. When I approach this step I am unable to view it objectively, maybe I don't know how. I get entangled in it, and am forced to ignore it quickly as it appears, and refocus on my breath. I hear this is not good. I must accept the distraction and be mindful of them. I shouldn't repress them. But how can one be mindful of these thoughts?
Example. A sexual fantasy occurs–one of the many annoying features of being a man–and if I observe it, I become entangled with it.
The thought of due-bills occurs, when I attempt to observe this thought, I am suddenly worrying about an array of financially related matters, etc.
In other words, whenever I attempt to be mindful of the intruding thoughts during meditation, I feel I become engaged with them, upon realization I eventually return to my breath, yet this remains unsatisfactory as I feel that I haven't "conquered" the thought.
What do you think?
0
Comments
As long as you think that something needs to be conquered, you are empowering the very adversarial delusion that meditation is there to wake you up from.
Thoughts are only a fraction of the available streaming sense gate data that are available to the meditator.
If your thoughts are dominating your attention over form, sensation, activity and consciousness, then why is that?
Likewise, if your eye, ear, nose, tongue and body input are rendered insignificant compared to your mind....Why is that?
If you use your concentration in meditation to broaden your attention rather than narrow it, I think you'll experience answers you seek.
I understand the meditative aspect analogous to a plastic bag floating in the wind. And I should adhere to its movement with some level of discipline, as I cannot get lost in motion, instead I must feel the movement, observe the surroundings etc.
When I am with the flow, it is natural for the other senses or thoughts to act up. I should let it come, and observe them objectively. At this juncture I don't know exactly how to behave. Sure, I am aware of the new thought, and i somehow become entangled with it. By the time I realize the distraction, I refocus on my breath. But what about that distraction?? I mean, I was with it. Then I realized I was into it. Then I went back to meditation. But what did I learn from that? Did I give into it?
For some people, the ego is experienced as our deliberate manipulation of thought.
It adjusts our sense gate data input to support a delusional belief of a "self verses other" view. For this reason, our awareness is usually skewed towards our controllable thought over all the other sense gate input.
Getting "caught" or "distracted" occurs not so much from the over involvement in a thought but from a timely exclusion or veiling off of all the alternative sense gate data input.
This was why I was suggesting that a productive application of concentration in meditation for many comes from utilizing it for the macro view instead of a microscopic view.
Maintaining an openness to all the input can keep any possible thought fixation in perspective with the wider picture.
This way you are maintaining the disciplined mind on breath and allowing the mind to arise in bite sized chunks to start with . . .
Hope that is helpful
:wave:
At first, I took it to mean that I was not supposed to have thoughts at all when I meditated, which explains why I figured I was a Buddhist for 20 something years who did not meditate. One night at work, I had a revelation. I had all this noise in my head but wasn't paying much attention to it and BAM, awareness inserted itself and I understood 'monkey mind'.
My first meditations were like ping pong games, where a poor hapless thought would come along and *pow* I'd smack it away. It kind of worked, actually. Then I progressed to meditation characterized by "thought . . . thought thought thought . . . thought damn that bitch goes TOO FAR!!! The next time she says (insert returning attention to the breath, again) thought thought . . . where DID I put that wrench, oh shit, did I leave it out in the rain??"
Meditation was rough, and along the way, I sensed me beating myself up for having thoughts, then beating up myself for getting carried away by every other thought. Getting frustrated with myself added more and uglier thoughts, and anyway, getting mad at myself for having thoughts is like getting mad at your immune system for an allergic reaction.
My right brain can get pretty active during meditation, probably I can just sense it more clearly with less thought-noise. I had an image of floating over a body of water that was moving beneath me like a steady river, and my 'thoughts' were flotsam and jetsam bobbing along beneath me, going past, and gone. When I find myself taking a ride on every other thought (after a rough night at work, for instance) I use this imagery along with focusing on my breath.
When you think about it (no pun intended), practically NO ONE would have the slightest idea of what we are even discussing here.
That you have the awareness you DO have is immense and reassuring!
Gassho
As far as being mindful of them, the way I see it, being mindful of the thought does not mean "analyzing the content" or something like that. If you start analyzing the content, you get caught up in it. The content is often completely irrelevant, random nonsense. Being mindful of the thoughts simply means that some random though is occurring and when you become aware of that, AKA become mindful of it, you return to the breath. Something relevant will sometime appear, but that is usually not the case. Most of the time it's just nonsense that is not even worth paying any attention to. You don't need to try to be mindful of the details of the content. The content is just bullshit.
A bird appears in the sky, but it does not disturb the sky.
The 5 hindrances that every mediator deals with are - Desire, Aversion, Restlessness, Dullness, and Doubt.
The remedy for the hindrances is our meditation practice itself. However, each hindrance has it's own specific countermeasure.
For restlessness or busyness, the monkey mind that swings from thought to thought, we apply calm. Rest your attention of the rhythm of the in breath and the out breath.
For dullness, the wandering mind that leads to sleep, we apply awareness and energy. Sit up straight and pay attention.
Perhaps you are experiencing the hindrance of desire. A thought comes to mind and because of past conditioning you give it importance and really, really want to follow it. Sometimes it is a pleasurable fantasy or a good story. Sometimes some other thought stream comes to mind. But you don't have to follow it You could just let it go. The antidote to desire is acceptance.
It sounds to me like you have a good practice going. If meditation was easy more people would do it. The fact that you practice and are aware of these hindrances as you come across them is good, The hindrances are just the hindrances. With practice you can learn to deal more effectively with them. So keep practicing.
Best Wishes
You already have enjoyment of your breath focus. So that is body awareness.
Other body sensation awareness? Back to the breath.
Emotional state? Back to the breath.
Mind arisings? Back to the breath.
So your meditation is not 'wandering from the focus' but retaining the focus and enjoyment but becoming aware of more of what is also happening . . .
:om:
I experience a little loss when I leave the object so I am happy to return. I don't need to suppress random thoughts. My attachment has become the object so mindfulness is not a stopping. It is a constant approaching. It sounds like you are getting gains.
calm abiding will flatten out the sense of failure. You'll see.
SeaOfTranquilitySeaOfTranquility Member
1:45PM Flag
Mind like the sky. Big, open, and spacious.
A bird appears in the sky, but it does not disturb the sky.
The 5 hindrances that every mediator deals with are - Desire, Aversion, Restlessness, Dullness, and Doubt.
Yes and exhilaration. The tonic for exhilaration is enthusiasm. mtgby
this loss of concentration the occurs time by time and is quite normal. As you i reject these thoughts and feelings by concentrating on breathing.
To minmize these fallouts you can also pay some importance to the watching of thoughts and feeling, if you do the 8fold path, At the four pillars of insight, you should
see the second pillar, watching feelings and thoughts come and go. Just watch them.
This helps a lot.
sakko
However we do not get to oneness and its emptiness, except through twoness. You might find the breath is more whole and when away from it too long you get 'caught' by the arisings. This is why combining breath and thought retains the discipline and widens the awareness. I feel everyone is saying the same thing in different ways and hopefully something will resonate . . .