Why am I so nervous (if I practice Buddhism)?

Jeffrey

I am handing in a job application and I am so nervous. This always happens regarding employment, I go into a realm of nerves always when I question working. I fear that I will be ignored in my efforts, or that I won't know what to say. I go through this neurosis. It's really just a simple job application, but I get so wound up. Can psychology help? Or perhaps a Buddhist outlook? Mostly in posting this thread I just wanted to give a description of my problem and maybe someone can shed some light.

lobster

:thumbsup:

This afternoon I was stuck half way up a ladder trying to clear guttering, when I felt fearful of my imagined danger. The ladder felt too steep, due to limited access. I had to come down and secure the ladder with rope, even though I was in no danger. I am such a woos.
Ladder secured and chanting silently to Amitabah for strength and fortitude up I went. Up and through the imagined body fear, up to the roof guttering . . . [fearless crud clearing cructacean]
In a similar way those of us not yet fortified with the diamond mind of the fearless Buddhas are prone to insecurity, fear, anxiety over job applications etc.

You did good. We are only human . . . You applied. Good luck with the job.

Guttering cleared. Lobster, ladder plus Amitaba, we have the technology . . . :clap:

Jeffrey

I shall chant to Amitabah under my breath while handing it in Perhaps a couple of mindful flourishes and a minor celebration of peanut butter spoon, yum, when I get home.

BhikkhuJayasara

you answered your own question.. you PRACTICE dhamma, as do we all, the Buddha said it was a gradual PRACTICE, we are not there yet are we? we still have attachment, aversion, and delusion and we chip away at them through the practice.

all you need to know is that you have normal fears and that you need to practice, the rest comes and goes on it's own accord.

fivebells

@Jeffrey: The version of Buddhism you are practicing (which I come from myself, via Ken McLeod) is not conducive to settling the mind down in stressful situations. It is too focused on letting things be as they are (which has its place, in advanced practice) rather than on tampering with mental processes to understand their causes and conditions (which also has its place, in more basic practice. That is what basic instructions for following the breath are about, after all.)

Your own question is evidence of this inadequacy. I have also met people who have practiced this way for decades yet still get angry at trivial matters and make terrible, obvious errors of judgement out of hunger for this or that. I practiced this way for over a decade with little progress in terms of mastering anxiety. Once I supplemented with more foundational practices, I began to see good progress.

Jeffrey

Interesting, @fivebells formless practice doesn't try to control the mind I agree. But it is good at taking refuge in openness, clarity, and sensitivity and that is/was helpful to me today. The center of my mandala was 'getting a job' and once I stepped out of that mandala and into the practice mandala I felt much better.

Basically I just wanted some human affection and feedback in my motive for asking the question. My lama has said that I can do shamata practices and metta and tonglen even if that isn't explicitly taught in her intro course. The intro course basically focuses on things like joyful effort via pranadhanas which cause a unity of mind. Pranadhanas are wishful resolves and through a process you can see that all your desires ultimately are distorted Bodhicitta.

I wouldn't say my meditation practice has not 'worked', but like you say the shamata component is based on unconditional faith in the awareness of mind. Tonglen is a practice in my sangha where tampering with mental practices occurs. All of the tonglen slogans kid of repolarize the heart. Ultimately the unconditioned is a refuge whereas conditioned confidence is like a boat that can be overturned if the conditions change. So I posit that my way is slower, but ultimately more of a broad refuge despite the problem with uncoditional awareness. Doctoring awareness can have the result that you 'become' a 'bag of tricks' rather than working with any state including the state of the mind at death.

Thanks for opening my mind to your practice.

Hamsaka

conditioned confidence is like a boat that can be overturned if the conditions change.

Or is it also the raft of twigs and branches and vines used to cross the river, the one we leave behind rather than carry it with us onward? Immediately this image came to mind, it comes from one of Buddha's teachings on keeping your priorities straight, but I'm terrible at remembering scriptural references.

I've had anxiety my whole life, and plenty of reason for it while growing up. In my adult life, it has not been so useful, more something that distracts and causes misery for no reason.

My approach has always been secular therapy and its techniques; but as I grow in understanding of the Dharma, those therapeutic techniques are getting fleshed out and mildly corrected. If you need to build a raft, then you need to build a raft, even if it's purpose is temporary. Our anxieties, while not truthful in the Absolute sense of awareness and being, are certainly real (relatively speaking). Mine are, anyway.

There is a teacher I listen to more than any other, and he is not much into building rafts (although I may be wrong, have never asked him directly). I get so angry and fed up with him sometimes. I'd like to see HIM walk on water across the river!! Which just might prove his point . . . sigh . . . anyway, so I go to other teachers who are more tuned into those of us who still need to build rafts. That's where I'm at. It's insane to not know that about myself. So, back to limited, arcane therapy techniques, when I need to start somewhere.

Where practicing the Dharma has fleshed out modern therapy for me is particularly in 'conditioned arising'. I can look at my anxiety as being a conditioned arising dependent upon beliefs, emotions, attitudes, feelings lying beneath it . . . and the conditions beneath those, and beneath again. It's long, slow hard work, as you say, @jeffrey. All for the result of realizing it's all a bunch of shit and I am free and always have been . . . but still, I gotta humor my current conditioning until it gets undone

One reason I'm so drawn to my non-raft teacher is because I know he speaks the truth, and I want to be there. I will be there. For now, I'm building rafts when I need them and keeping my intention on the truth.

Gassho

Jeffrey

yes, Hamsaka, padmasambhava said his mind was as vast as the sky, but he respected karma like fine grains of sand (or something).

fivebells

Jeffrey said:

So I posit that my way is slower, but ultimately more of a broad refuge despite the problem with uncoditional awareness.

It doesn't have to be like that. You can have the best of both worlds.

Zero

Jeffrey said:

I am handing in a job application and I am so nervous.

It's ok to be nervous - it's a natural response - keep going.
Imagine when you're nervous that there was a time when you were not nervous and it changed and so it will change again.
Hankering for not nervous when nervous or nervous when not nervous is what may be the real bite.
Good luck with the application.

Jeffrey

fivebells said:

Jeffrey said:

So I posit that my way is slower, but ultimately more of a broad refuge despite the problem with uncoditional awareness.

It doesn't have to be like that. You can have the best of both worlds.

Yes I think the same thing and my Lama said I could do mindfulness, metta, tonglen, concentration on my own rather than with the sangha's teachings. My teacher also said the way Buddha became enllightened was through formless meditation which opens to Dzogchen and Mahamudra. She said sooner or later I am going to need the formless meditation and I might as well start now. To repeat she said I could do any outside practices unless they are dangerous.

The selling point is that I can do your method AND my teacher, buddha, dharma, sangha method.

So what is your meditation method> I'm too lazy for (combing through) scripture ha!

Jeffrey

I handed in the application to Goodwill and unfortunately I didn't meet the supervisor which my friend a Goodwill said that I should do. I guess I will dart in and follow-up in a couple of weeks to meet the supervisor.

David

A couple of weeks?

I don't want to sound like a nag but if I was the supervisor I wouldn't see a lot of enthusiasm there.

If they are hiring, wouldn't it be good to call in a day or two to try and set up an appointment? You could help a lot of people working for an outfit like that so it's probably right up your alley.

Got my fingers crossed for you.

Namada

Iam agree with Ourself, call the supervisor soon as you can, then he will recognize you personally and he will understand you are very keen and interested in this job and its also showing that you are a man with courage. From my experience its not good to "sell yourself" from a third part, this you can do after, just give him some good references. And if you are calling after a couple of weeks i believe this job is taken. Do some action when its still hot.

To be nervous its normal, this is maybe a situation you are not used to?

But if you are recognizing "iam nervous now" then you will make a space, and not get hooked in to this nervous emotion. And then wake up from "the dream".
This you already know..but maybe it didnt work?

Its also a positive thing to get nervous, this is a new situation and a challenge, and you will get stronger after confronting it...If we are not feeling bad emotions anymore something is really wrong..

Jeffrey

So I should call the supervisor? I imagine it is even better to go in person, right? The job opportunity is at Goodwill. I am not sure how much turnover they have. I haven't worked in 70 years due to mental health, so my references are probably too old

Namada

Ok! Its even better to go and meet him 70 years, its long time, so its really a new world for you to try to work again i guess? What kind of a job is it? The more you know about the job the better it is, and maybe its not so difficult to get this job since its Goodwill or?

Jeffrey

OOPS 7 years. Lol. 70 years ago I was a gleam in my grandpa's eye hehe

Jeffrey

Goodwill's mission is partly to hire difficult to work people. They have great job security because they aren't supposed to fire someone for their mental health.

Namada

Hehe ok, thats a bit diffrent, i understood its difficult to get job references which are 70 years old, they may all be dead :P

Namada

Ok, thats good! Its just to do the best you can, meet the supervisor personally as soon you can and use your instinct...and maybe do some good preparations

Hope you will get the job even though you are 100 years old.

Dennis1

Bewilderment arises from ignorance of our true nature. Because the mind is created to watch after the well being of our self it is natural that it constantly endeavors to correct the self so that success is more likely. It is not wrong to be concerned it is natural to fret. You can rise above by concerning yourself about the other person. This is the lesson of self perfection. Best, Dennis

fivebells

Jeffrey said:

So what is your meditation method

There is no one method. The main thing is to keep assessing what's working and what's not, why something is or isn't working and what contexts it works in, and maintain a commitment to establishing wholesome intentions and abandoning unwholesome ones, where wholesome and unwholesome are evaluated largely in terms of present and future effects on concentration. This talk gives a good overview.

vinlyn

Jeffrey said:

I am handing in a job application and I am so nervous. This always happens regarding employment, I go into a realm of nerves always when I question working. I fear that I will be ignored in my efforts, or that I won't know what to say. I go through this neurosis. It's really just a simple job application, but I get so wound up. Can psychology help? Or perhaps a Buddhist outlook? Mostly in posting this thread I just wanted to give a description of my problem and maybe someone can shed some light.

In the other thread you seem to say that Buddhism can take care of your psychological needs...yet here it seems that you are saying the opposite.

Jeffrey

@vinlyn, I have a therapist, a psychiatrist, and a guru, but I still have difficulties. In assessing Buddhism you have to look at the relative picture. Buddhism has certainly helped in a relative sense. As I said I was looking for a friendly face (text online) to help me. Also as I just said above I use psychology, psychiatry, and Buddhism.

That is a good point and I can see why the other thread confused you.

Jeffrey

fivebells said:

Jeffrey said:

So what is your meditation method

There is no one method. The main thing is to keep assessing what's working and what's not, why something is or isn't working and what contexts it works in, and maintain a commitment to establishing wholesome intentions and abandoning unwholesome ones, where wholesome and unwholesome are evaluated largely in terms of present and future effects on concentration. This talk gives a good overview.

I liked your link @fivebells. As I said my guru isn't against my finding alternate methods. For awhile I was studying Jon Kabatt Zinn and another time Pema Chodron. That doesn't mean I am going to abandon my formless meditation, but I can add shamata meditation on the breath if I wish. Of course then if I am doing my own method my teacher cannot help me because it is not her method. The car analogy is a lot like my teacher's idea of 'jumping into' mandalas. I liked the teacher but the audio didn't list his name.

fivebells

The teacher is Thanissaro. There's a huge list of his other talks here.

Your teacher won't be able to help you in the end anyway. There will always be eventualities you have to deal with yourself. (Another theme of Thanissaro's I like.)

Jeffrey

@fivebells, at the end I won't need any help! :hair: