Oldest Buddhist Shrine Uncovered In Nepal May Push Back Buddha's Birth Date

bookworm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131125-buddha-birth-nepal-archaeology-science-lumbini-religion-history/

BhikkhuJayasara

oooh Buddhism and archaeology, two of my favorite subjects in one. Thank you for posting.

bookworm

I'm glad I could help (=

vinlyn

I had mixed emotions reading that. A first reaction was that it means the oral tradition of remembering Buddha's teachings lasted much longer than previously thought, and therefore it casts more doubt on the accuracy of the teachings. Then I though, but a wise teaching is a wise teaching no matter how it came about. I guess that's why I like to take religion out of it and focus on secular Buddhism

bookworm

Thats very interesting @vinlyn, I didn't think of that

Jeffrey

Dharmakaya, one of Buddha's bodies, is timeless, vinlyn (which is good enough for *some* Buddhists)

vinlyn

Jeffrey said:

Dharmakaya, one of Buddha's bodies, is timeless, vinlyn (which is good enough for *some* Buddhists)

Okay, I'll be easy on you. My favorite "early man" has always been Australopithecus afarensis). "He" lived between 3.9 and 2.9 million years ago. Do you have some actual evidence that Buddhism existed then? I guess it must have if it was "timeless".

Jeffrey

There is no fossil of dharmakaya. It has no color or shape or smell, but rather is the empty pregnancy and the heart of the universe. The suns and planets are just form skhanda. The self is not any of the five skhandas. You could say that human beings are pervaded by dharmakaya. Another meaning of dharmakaya is the truth body. It radiates irrespective of high and low; it radiates both to Hitler and Mother Teresa. If it did not exist we could not learn because everything would be tight with no dissolution. To loosen up and learn you have to let go. We have a soft sore spot making us tender and a yielding quality to our heart even if that softspot is only for tortillas or making model airplanes. So it exists in all times including the here and including the future and including the past. There is a sense of time (always) in awareness, but the three times are dependently arisen and have no substance of their own, thus the time is just an appearance like the sun rising is just an appearance; what force causes the sun to rise?

BhikkhuJayasara

Oral Tradition lasts longer then written.. papers can be burned, cultures rarely die.

my major in college was anthropology, I learned a lot about oral traditions and I came to find that there are still a few oral traditions alive today on the planet, and the people who keep these traditions alive can accurately recount stories and mythology large enough to fill a bible.

in fact even in the suttas you can tell which is oldest and which is not, the repetition in the suttas comes from that oral tradition.

vinlyn

Jeffrey said:

There is no fossil of dharmakaya. It has no color or shape or smell, but rather is the empty pregnancy and the heart of the universe. The suns and planets are just form skhanda. The self is not any of the five skhandas. You could say that human beings are pervaded by dharmakaya. Another meaning of dharmakaya is the truth body. It radiates irrespective of high and low; it radiates both to Hitler and Mother Teresa. If it did not exist we could not learn because everything would be tight with no dissolution. To loosen up and learn you have to let go. We have a soft sore spot making us tender and a yielding quality to our heart even if that softspot is only for tortillas or making model airplanes. So it exists in all times including the here and including the future and including the past. There is a sense of time (always) in awareness, but the three times are dependently arisen and have no substance of their own, thus the time is just an appearance like the sun rising is just an appearance; what force causes the sun to rise?

I gave up believing in such stories when I abandoned the Old Testament. I'm not going to pick up another set of such stories in a new religion.

If you can provide the evidence, fine. If not, just admit it -- that you have "faith" in something for which there is no evidence.

vinlyn

Jayantha said:

Oral Tradition lasts longer then written.. papers can be burned, cultures rarely die.

my major in college was anthropology, I learned a lot about oral traditions and I came to find that there are still a few oral traditions alive today on the planet, and the people who keep these traditions alive can accurately recount stories and mythology large enough to fill a bible.

in fact even in the suttas you can tell which is oldest and which is not, the repetition in the suttas comes from that oral tradition.

Oral traditions are interesting. The question is whether or not they are accurate. Or did George really not tell a lie after chopping down the cherry tree?

Jeffrey

@Vinlyn at the first Bhumi of a Bodhisattva you can see the samboghaya body of Buddha directly. Until then we just have Shakyamuni and his living presence is gone from this earth so all we see are echoes.

I'm just trying to explain my beliefs. You need not worry about if I have proof because it is an internal personal experience (samboghakay) and (one) need not have proof because they have a direct realization. Of course I am not a Bodhisattva so, no, I don't have proof or even an experience. Just as I would put trust in a tour guide so too do I trust my Lama and her teachings.

I think you don't have full perception of dharmakaya until you are a full Buddha. But every being is kindled by dharmakaya. It's a lot like the holy ghost. Nirmanakaya is like the son. Hmmm maybe samboghakaya is like the holy ghost?? Interesting to me to think about these; it gives me a buzz :dunce:

vinlyn

Thank goodness for secular Buddhism.

Jeffrey

Nonetheless, I am not a solo crackpot sounding off. This is plainly stated (regarding the dharmakaya) in the Lam Rim (gradual) texts of the karma kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism. So it isn't an odd view. Don't worry no Kool-Aid passed out so far.

*******************************
Ok back to the OP. My point was that there was always dharmakaya since there was a universe and in the Mahayana dharmakaya is a body of the Buddha

Dennis1

Reading the above quotes, I think the dissenter might feel better if they understood that the Dharmakaya is not a body which was Buddha's. It is a reflection of the Buddha nature which is inherent in all of us. It is the nature of truth which is not bewildered by grasping after the imaginary. There is also a body of transformation and a body of bliss. These are aspects of enlightened existence. They are not magical or mystic. They are manifest simply and naturally as awareness grows and awakened presence is united with awareness free from ignorance. The Buddha said " When a Person was looked for none was found." The Buddha did not teach a God-person and he surely did not suppose himself to be one. Best, Dennis

Jeffrey said:

Dharmakaya, one of Buddha's bodies, is timeless, vinlyn (which is good enough for *some* Buddhists)

ThailandTom

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25088960

bookworm

I would love to live in Nepal one day