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Life after
Faustrim
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hello , i have one question, when I, or someone else reach nirvana, he is freed from karma and samsara , and what happen when that man die?? Where will I go ?? Where went Buddha after his death ?? I know Mahayana Buddhists trust in that they will become bodhisattvas, but what about Theravada? Thank you ! :-)
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If we don't inherently exist, that our 'I' is just a bunch of causes and conditions, then there's no inherent 'I' to go anywhere.
I'm no expert though.
Maybe we could help you with some internet resources?
Ajahn Brahm is very popular and easy on the ear:
As to Theravada, I don't know.
firstly welcome to NB. Secondly I will speak from a Theravada perspective in that there is no real way to explain what nibbana(nirvana) "is".. but it is not a "place" like heaven, it is simply the eradication of attachment, aversion, and ignorance, as the definition says. Basically what changes is the mind.
in the end, what nibbana is, is not very important at all. What is most important is the actual practice itself.
I will post some words from the ancient pali suttas regarding it. This will probably confuse you more though as nibbana is described in ways like " neither existance nor non-existance."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/nibbana.html
Defined in terms of what it is...
"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."
...and in terms of what it is not
"There is that dimension where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor stasis; neither passing away nor arising: without stance, without foundation, without support [mental object]. This, just this, is the end of stress."
— Ud 8.1
"There is, monks, an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that emancipation from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, emancipation from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned."
— Ud 8.3
Where water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing: There the stars do not shine, the sun is not visible, the moon does not appear, darkness is not found. And when a sage, a brahman through sagacity, has known [this] for himself, then from form & formless, from bliss & pain, he is freed.
— Ud 1.10
What happens to one who has fully realized Nibbana?
[Aggivessana Vacchagotta:] "But, Master Gotama, the monk whose mind is thus released: Where does he reappear?"
[The Buddha:] "'Reappear,' Vaccha, doesn't apply."
"In that case, Master Gotama, he does not reappear."
"'Does not reappear,' Vaccha, doesn't apply."
"...both does & does not reappear."
"...doesn't apply."
"...neither does nor does not reappear."
"...doesn't apply."
"How is it, Master Gotama, when Master Gotama is asked if the monk reappears... does not reappear... both does & does not reappear... neither does nor does not reappear, he says, '...doesn't apply' in each case. At this point, Master Gotama, I am befuddled; at this point, confused. The modicum of clarity coming to me from your earlier conversation is now obscured."
"Of course you're befuddled, Vaccha. Of course you're confused. Deep, Vaccha, is this phenomenon, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. For those with other views, other practices, other satisfactions, other aims, other teachers, it is difficult to know. That being the case, I will now put some questions to you. Answer as you see fit. What do you think, Vaccha: If a fire were burning in front of you, would you know that, 'This fire is burning in front of me'?"
"...yes..."
"And suppose someone were to ask you, Vaccha, 'This fire burning in front of you, dependent on what is it burning?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"
"...I would reply, 'This fire burning in front of me is burning dependent on grass & timber as its sustenance.'"
"If the fire burning in front of you were to go out, would you know that, 'This fire burning in front of me has gone out'?"
"...yes..."
"And suppose someone were to ask you, 'This fire that has gone out in front of you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"
"That doesn't apply, Master Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of grass and timber, being unnourished — from having consumed that sustenance and not being offered any other — is classified simply as 'out' (unbound)."
"Even so, Vaccha, any physical form by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea. 'Reappears' doesn't apply. 'Does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Both does & does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Neither reappears nor does not reappear' doesn't apply.
"Any feeling... Any perception... Any mental fabrication...
"Any consciousness by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of consciousness, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea."
— MN 72
@Jayantha thanks for your interest ! i will look on it. I have books from Nyanatiloka Thera - The Word of The Buddha and Buddhist dicitionary . Hope i'll find something there . Thank you again ! And why do Hinduists think, and they are sure that Buddha was a Vishnu avatar? That confuses me.
Im happy that i can trust in Buddha. Im feeling better everyday when im reading Dhammapada.
But look, can you explain me this? Why are Hinduists so sure of that? One hinduist posted that ----> http://vedabase.com/en/sb/1/3/24 .. hmm maybe its just a story, but WHY?
Just because an individual expresses extreme surety or faith does NOT mean what they believe is TRUTH (the actual truth beyond understanding). Belief is a personal, individual activity. I know people that believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that aborting a 6 week embryo is equal to murdering a human being. Are they 'right'? I don't think THEY know if they are right any more than I do. They believe they are right, but that does not mean their belief is TRUE.
I'm talking about a way to think about things. In Buddhism, we meditate and practice mindfulness in order to become familiar with our minds and behaviors, how they work, and what are the conditions that give rise to our minds, thoughts, and behaviors.
So, it doesn't matter how strongly a Hindu believes Buddha is an avatar of Vishnu, it does not affect what the Buddha really *is*. It won't matter to you as you progress along the Buddhadharma, either, so that's good news. It seems so very important now, but that is only because you perceive strong belief as an indicator of some truth. It is not.
Gassho
What I do know is that this question and the clinging hope for life everlasting means everything to my identity/ego.
When ones identity/ego softens and dissipates along the Buddha's path towards sufferings cessation, so does the suffering engendered with such clinging hopes.
The first incarnation of Vishnu was a mighty sardine (also in Lobsterian lore) called Matsya
He was also a turtle, pigee, half of a lion act and a dwarf.
Superman has nothing on Vishnu. He is the first Super Hero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu
“I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, Superman!”
Homer Simpson
Hope this helps. :bowdown: