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12 years a slave
betaboy
Veteran
So depressing, this movie. The little faith I had in humanity is gone. The acting was excellent, especially by the main character. Background music was also good. Certain scenes were very intense, didn't hold back or dilute them for the sake of a modern audience - that's a good thing.
How do others feel about this movie?
How do others feel about this movie?
0
Comments
Mind you the British have also swept a lot under their historical carpets as well!
But faith in humanity is a silly thing to have or to lose..cause its asking from the world what it can never give you. Faith in yourself is all you need.
England was neck deep in the slave trade. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The first commercial slave traders to deal with westerners, were Africans, on Africans.
A well-known British personality (black) was tracing his family history for a series on TV, and denounced and condemned the men who held his (Great-something) Grandmother slave, so they could breed more slaves from her. The horror distaste and disgust he held, was palpable.
Then, to his horror, he discovered that on the OTHER side of his family, his (Great-something) BLACK Grandfather, had been a successful, publicly-renowned figure, held in high esteem by his community - whose sole occupation was.... you guessed it - Slave trader and owner.
he was rendered utterly speechless....
And every power in history has taken slaves from conquered lands, from the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians....
Where does blame, begin?
And where will it end?
Where should apologies, begin and end?
I was frustrated in terms of the film. Wanted to see, but here in Colorado Springs it never seemed to go into general release. So, I'm left waiting for cable or DVD.
"England was one of the latest countries to start slave trade. Soon England became on of the biggest slave trading nations. They began to bring slaves to the Caribbean. They formed the Royal African Company in 1672. This allowed English colonies in America to easily buy slaves from English traders. At the beginning only a few slaves came to English colonies. But when the big tobacco and rice plantations grew in the colonies in the south the slave trade increased.
Although many people think that most slaves were stolen or caught by slave traders, this is not the truth. Most slaves were bought by Europeans from other African people. Often, rival tribes sold into slavery members of other tribes they captured during wars. "
Slavery still happens today; and that is sad.
to be had.....but that doesn't make it any easier to listen or
partake in.
and I have been exposed/living in the culture....and now, we're in
the South....anyway.... That being said.....
I was unable all morning to make a post without it sounding
emotional, defensive, and maybe reactive due to my personal
experiences in life.
I'm going to just try to listen in on this one...
Why doesn't anyone want to make a movie about the very real slavery that continues in Africa today? Or about the savage treatment of women in Saudi Arabia and Somalia. But oh yes, you may end up shot and stabbed like that Dutch film producer.
The wheels of civilization are greased in blood, and it has always been that way. I'm not saying this in order to minimize the horror of slavery, but rather to place it in context. Virtually every culture/ethnicity/people has at some point been both the perpetrator and the victim of atrocities. I feel sure that the future holds similar evils.
I haven't seen it but why do you watch movies that depress you?
In metta,
Raven
Why not?
Where do you see this to be incorrect?
to 'get over it' because murder and torture has happened since the
beginning of time.
Also...the mentality of racism stayed.....even
after the slaves were 'freed' here....It wasn't that
long ago. The half of the country that was for it..
didn't just change their minds....they went underground
with it.
I have to look at the confederate flag everyday to work.
It's still a state flag here...(MS)...(I work on the state border)
It's so complicated here (US)......
Racism makes the most impact when your the one in power...
for example...How much impact can a black man have
if he doesn't 'like' white men, if he holds no power? Not in
any position to hold him 'down'...., is he? Yes, the social
issues still stand...but can he hold the other down?
However, if a white man (who holds the power) doesn't
'like' black men....what kind of impact could he have??
Alot.
Also...Just like there is slave OWNER mentality...there is slave
mentality, and alot of the issues/negative/unskillful social issues
within the black community stem from that. Doesn't make it
right...but it can help with understanding behavior..
We have a couple of people from India living in the same house. Every single day, without exception, they commandeer the kitchen and cooker, and spend at least 2 - 3 hours, cooking extremely spicy and pungent food. Quite apart from the inconvenience this creates for other house-mates (when do WE get to cook OUR meals? we often end up eating either at 4pm, before they get home, or at around 10pm, when they finish....)
....The smell permeates everything in the house, and can be detected all too easily right up on the top floor. Closing doors, has no effect, or barely any. I have been to work and people have commented to me "Oh, I know what you ate last night! Curry!" but they're wrong: its just that my clothes have been completely impregnated with the odour...
They don't use toilet paper. They use their hands, and a jug of hot water, to clean themselves after going to the toilet, which leaves drips all over the floor, they persistently don't bother mopping up....
Yet if anyone says anything to them, we get the immediate response, "You're being racist." So nobody says anything. And we suffer in silence.
The sad thing is, they have now been ostracised by other house members, because of their intransigent, persistent and unsocial behaviour. Nobody speaks to them, everyone avoids them.
But that's us being racist again.
I detest it when people keep playing the racist card.
It's unintelligent, incorrect and wildly irrational.
yet this is why people walk on eggshells.... Political correctness gone over-the-top.
Pot calling the kettle another colour, methinks........
be addressed....but I was speaking on the subject on the movie in
the OP...AFA...slavery and it's aftermath here. I think everyone
can get upset when we are called something we aren't...
To be honest...I'm not familiar with Indian culture enough
to connect the subjects....
Good luck...
Suffice to say that, being here, in this environment every day, I can unequivocally tell you that you are incorrect.
Poor little guy doesnt know what hes doing. Glad we have so many helpful people here to advise him...
I'm ready to talk about it ......
This particular slave was educated and could write, so
he wrote his own life story. Yes, it's nominated for a whole
bunch of awards....Glad to say, it's been playing here all over.
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Years_a_Slave_(film)
I will say that Chiwetel Ejiofor definitely deserves the Academy Award for his performance. Remarkable.
The amount of sadism that is depicted here, while realistic, would be considered in gross excess in most films. For this topic, I guess it's accepted. I was reminded, however, of a midnight in 1977 when the phone rang and it was the Black principal of the school where I was teaching in the Washington suburbs in Maryland. Our school was about 50% Black, but the teaching staff was majority White. The principal called an emergency faculty meeting the next morning, 90 minutes before the opening of school. The topic: "Roots", the first episode of which had aired that night. She walked us through how a Black person might react to such a telecast, and while she expected ramifications the next school day, other than a lot of chatter, there were none. But times have certainly changed. No unrest due to an even more graphic depiction of slavery than in "Roots".
Another question that kept coming back to me during the film was, how long are we going to think that we have to beat ourselves up over an issue that is long in the past? Or is such a story telling good for us? Should we continually dredge up the actions of the Japanese or Germans over WWII? Be as childish as we are about Cuba?
As far as the movie goes...as a movie...I found it rather sterile. No heart to it. It felt almost more like a documentary than a story that I would want to watch a second time.
And finally, I kept thinking that while this nation has come a very long ways, that I am sad that some people think equality is not a fact of life. It's not.
However, it is revealing to listen to the reactions of the viewers. First, complaining that we should not focus on the white race enslaving Africans because some black tribes also practiced slavery is like saying we should not talk about the white American Army slaughtering the Native Americans because a few tribes hired on as scouts and also helped in the slaughter. The few African tribes who helped did not create a global slave trade. Slavery existed before the cotton fields of the South, and genocide existed before we began wiping out Native Americans, but nobody is claiming we invented either evil.
I think this movie might be a needed reminder for certain parts of our population, because we do have people who stood up in a room of otherwise intelligent adults and claimed with a straight face that the slaves didn't have it that bad, and free food and housing were provided, after all. And get a round of applause for saying it, instead of being thrown out of the room. We also have a State elected Congressman who said with a straight face that if his constituents wanted slavery back, he'd have to vote for it since his job is doing what his people want. And this man was not seen as the twisted excuse of a human being he just proved himself to be.
But personally, I won't subject myself to what seems to be a marvelous depiction of that evil's true face, in the same way I can't even watch an episode of "Criminal Mind" that my wife enjoys. Too painful for me.
The last rambo movie(which is about the atrocities in burma) did the same, making civilians run across minefields and the gore of bodies being torn apart. although im sure many people dont realize that high calibur weaponry literally can cut people in half.
Moral of the story is gore for gores sake is never as impactful as gore for reality sake.
Here is my contribution.....
May I be able to listen deeply and compassionately in
order to water the seeds of reconciliation and peace.
To Make Reconciliation
Possible
By Thich Nhat Hanh
European Institute of Applied Buddhism
June 13, 2013
http://www.mindfulnessbell.org/articles/mb64-DharmaTalk PDF-FINAL.pdf
It's a written dharma talk....easy to read...and only about 6 pages.
As to 'how long are we . . . going to beat ourselves up'; not another minute or second. None of us alive today participated in these historical pogroms or atrocities. I see great value, however, in revisiting them through literature and film so that we do not repeat history.
I wouldn't know a thing about Black slavery or the Holocaust if it weren't for books and movies. Yeah, obvious and at least so far, missing your point. Knowing about them is one thing . . . but nothing brings out good old fashioned sympathic/empathic experience like a film. This is another way, perhaps a more thorough way of knowing.
An averagely sensitive person will walk away after such a film with the images and emotions it evoked burning big swathes of their psyche for a few days, and their minds will make associations and comparisons as it normally does, personal ones, and deeper understanding of what occurs on both sides of the persecutor and victim are realized and hopefully applied.
I personally don't mind carrying a bit of collective guilt and shame as an impersonal thing, a thing that can be just as easily carried by any human being with the capacity for hatred and misuse of power.
History repeats itself in subtle, covert ways as well. Oppression happens between two individuals as well as groups. Misuse of power, the same. We all need ongoing education about these potentials and we need to apply it to our own personal behavior. The moment a person says "I never" is the moment they go blind to when they DO. It's how I choose to apply it to my life, anyway.
Gassho
It's important to realize that there are still those in Africa and the Middle East being enslaved by fellow Africans and Arabs. Sadly less known is the ongoing pogrom of Coptic Christians in Egypt.
So THAT puts me in a 'class', the perceptions of others who see my skin color and make assumptions. This is NOT a big deal, I'm just going on and on as to why accepting a bit of collective guilt feels OK for me. In real life it never comes up except to split some hairs
Well, one time it did affect me IRL, or I thought it did. In one of my college classes there was a largish group of black students that kept to themselves and gave off a vibe that told me I wasn't welcome to visit or joke with them. A white girlfriend of mine at the time was married to a black man and had two little girls with him, and shocked the living daylights out of me by telling me that some black people DIDN'T LIKE WHITE PEOPLE or at least trust them very much. Whaaaat??? Can that even happen??? (lol!)
I guess I don't care very much, personally, that I might get lumped in. More than caring about that I care that I don't promote even the subtlest racism in any way I have control over. I grew up in a very small very WHITE town and didn't see a brown skinned person except on TV until I was 19 years old. Years ago I ran across some stories I wrote as a young teen and I used the word 'n*gger' as a description of one character's behavior. There was no overt white supremacy in our town, it was just understood that black people weren't exactly welcome but they might be if they would just act NORMAL.
I still experience flashes of that old racism every now and then, they are unpredictable and shocking. Many of the white folks I work with would have a hissy fit if someone called them racist but their imbedded, programmed racism pops it's ugly head up now and then, and them unaware. Perhaps the same thing happens with me? How can I be sure? I have no control over what erupts out of those deep deep layers of my socialization as a child of the 60's and 70's, but I can pay very close attention and not allow that crap to sneak into my speech and behavior.
Maybe by 'collective guilt' I'm just expressing an awareness of my deeper programming and that I have the capacity to be careless and insensitive in spite of my intentions.
Sorry for the text wall, I can type almost as fast as I think and it just starts pouring out :P
Gassho