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drugs
weird thing to say.. but smoking and i aint talking cigs, and so forth.. calms the body..
i recently found realisation.. through this.. although im not addicted.. damaging ur body in such a way calms the body into more straight forward thought...
any comments?
i recently found realisation.. through this.. although im not addicted.. damaging ur body in such a way calms the body into more straight forward thought...
any comments?
0
Comments
Meditation will give you the same - or rather, better - results.
Drugs are a toxin, and ultimately damaging.
The argument rages, but no such controversy exists about meditation....
nyways.. smokin weed. does make me calmer and in tha respect bring me closer to 'enlightenment'.. i realised stuff that id never noticed before cus i was so calm..
plus really unless i reach realisation not to do something.. why on earth would i not.. scripture are all very true and well.. but u gotta remember I'm me and on my own path.. theres nothing such as a 'buddhist' and although i will look and read stuff .. if it just says.. "mm'kay drugs r bad" then i doubt ive reached realisation on the subject..
is kinda hard.. to reach realisation on many old scriptures due to the whole dating factor.
also i dont think u can deny something til you've done it.. unless its like chopping ur arm off lol
If you have the time, please read this:
I am not judging you, just concerned.
Sincerely,
Jason
Anyway, having used the stuff in the past, I can attest that (at the time) it felt like a valuable tool for enhancing visualization & contemplation. I would go on walks & things would seem more luminous. Visualizing archetypes & such was also greatly enabled. At this period of my life/path, I found reading calculus books & the like to be engrossing and certain things made a lot of sense. It is also what made me realize the malleability of the mind. How a simple shift in its psycho-chemicals could change subjective experience on such a profound level. I started to see the primacy of consciousness & how the mind's sense of temporality was based on the state of consciousness. If one can shift their focus, they can shift their experience of time. This insight still helps me to cultivate patience.
Now, at some point or another, the nature of my experiences with the substance started to take on a different nature. Or perhaps, through my mindfulness practice, I started to see the downside of its usage. I realized that I had very little control, if any, over the experience. It was very difficult to carry on a train of logic for more than about 6 or 7 steps, as I would always follow tangents. Additionally, as the effects wore off, I noticed that my mind was very muddled & unfocused. I seemed to be experiencing greater amounts of anxiety as well. So, I started to bring mindfulness into this experience. The effect was that I started to see this state for what it was, & that it I was getting very caught up in something that ultimately was unsatisfactory. Eventually, I lost my desire to indulge & haven't even had the urge for about 2 years. Still, that sensation of being mudddled & an increased level of anxiety still linger on. I've learned to manage pretty well, & it seems that the feeling is starting to thin out & break up, though I get the feeling that I've still got a couple of years left before I completely work out the effects of this intoxicating substance from my mindstream.
Anyway, I hope this helps you in some way.
Take care
_/\_
metta
Do drugs alter your ability to write and talk with clarity?:-/
cheers all!
P.S. That little piece about the use of drugs versus enlightenment is a great article, Elohim!
I find the 'War on Drugs' to be a complete sham doing more harm than good. (If you notice, everything America declares a war on, that entity only seems to do better) If people want to smoke, let them. 'Thinning out the herd' like my pops always said.
I don't smoke. I don't drink either. I have no intention of doing either at this time or another. I find it personally distateful and repulsive. But if others want to, I have no quarrell with them. Of course I might be a little more hesitant if it were someone close to me, but like the Buddha said, "Our lives would be simpler if didn't trouble so much in the affairs of others."
I am in no position to hold the moral highground on issues like drugs. I won't tell you to stop doing drugs because I realize that only you can make that choice. I have no intention of telling you 'that's bad' or 'this is good'. You are correct in that you should know for yourself. My only advice would be that you carefully examine the choices you make and be mindful of their effects.
I have to say that we completely differ on this subject! I don't care if people smoke - it's their choice. But when me and my family members or friends have to start breathing in that air, that's when I have an issue with it. Like a good friend of mine once said "Your right to smoke stops with my right to breathe clean air!" When I have to hold my breath when I walk into a building, and have to tell my daughter to do the same because of all the people smoking outside the front door, then I have an issue with it!
I was seriously taken to task yesterday for commenting to a friend that I thought the current wars are a way in which the Baby Boomers are culling the next generation which is snapping at their heels! Reminds me of 1914 but less 'efficient'. Smoking is a very slow way to reduce the surplus population.
when ur spine is out of place, ur hips, ur shoulders and u can make ur neck crunch by moving it to the right.. lol tell me thats easy to shrug off.. when ur upper body is very sore and feels like u been hit by a car.. mmm
I'll put it one way, sometimes standard pain feels like it alleviates the pain in my back.. such as being hit..
I have gained more tolerance with it over time, for example .. there r ppl who wud complain at work about their back pain.. from standing up for 5 hours.. or even 2.. but i think i am in more pain then them and i don't say a thing.. you need to get used to something and gain power over it.. but there is always a beggining.
i don't think its fair to say thining out the herd.. i spoke of weaknesses in another thread and i was seen as derogatory. But i wasn't trying to say something like that.
The worst and most problematic ppl aren't always the smokers.. or druggies.. problems come in all sizes.. and all ppl... the expression "thining out the herd" really is nothing more than discrimination
but after 30 mins of 'meditation' i can't generally simply negate the pain.. no matter what u say.. thats beyond my current mind
so being i would assume younger than u .. i believe u can fill in the blanks...
Well, my dad is far less lenient about drugs than I am. His father was a long time smoker and alcoholic. He was a poor parent and husband to a struggling wife and children. He desipses drugs seeing how it tore his family apart at a young age.
I don't think it's really as brutal as it is just observable. If you use harmful chemicals, you might end up with results not favorable. To me it seems like karma. I don't see drugs as immoral like many do, but rather unadvisable.
Palzang
That said, taking drugs is not a light issue. And no matter why you are taking them, it is important to consider the side effects. I have certainly experienced enough negative effects to know that you have to be careful. At the very least, remember to make choices mindfully.
Palzang
Celebrin, I mean this with the greatest rsespect- if you continue to use drugs, even 'mild' ones like Cannabis, it'll always be beyond your mind. Here in the UK, we are currently undergoing a hard-hitting anti-drugs campaign, ramming the message home that drug use damages the mind, by showing a drug-user going into a store to buy a new brain. It's a gross advert, but it does get the message across. Prolonged use of Cannabis and it's derivatives have been proved to cause mood swings, emotional instability and paranoia, even schizophrenic behaviour in extreme cases. Are you really sure you want to risk your mind in this way?
Three years ago, I dislocated my shoulder, and tore all the para-spinal ligaments down the left side of my back. I was in terrible, excruciating pain for many months, and damaged it to the point where working out to strengthen it is no longer an option- it will simply do more damage. Over this time, I have been to physiotherapists, had painkillers, and tried all manner of things, but only since I began to meditate and focus on my breathing and stance, and be properly aware of it, has the pain become something I can control. In time, I know it will go.
Many years ago, when I used to smoke, I tried a Cannabis joint. Once was more than enough- the experience utterly terrified me. My mind was only awake, because the effects of the drug acted like a general anaesthetic on the rest of my body- my brain was fully awake, and trapped in a 'dead'body, and I was terrified that I would remain that way forever. The sense of serenity and calm you feel when smoking this substance is illusory; you only feel more aware and awake, because your body has been numbed to the point where it no longer distracts your conscious mind. This is why the Buddha advised against the use of intoxicants, as they have an illusory effect on the senses. We have learned, through reading and practising the Dhamma, of the illusory nature of the world around us and how it can decieve our senses; further deception by chemicals to achieve an illusory state of serenity can only be counter-productive.
I am not judging you or condemning you for what you are doing, but I thought you may want to hear some words of advice from someone who has 'been there, done that'. Please, I urge you, reconsider...:)
atm i carry on like normal, like it hardly exists but this is still not the realisation that may or may not come on this subject.
I haven't done anything since i first posted.. but all the comments are much appreciated, they've helped me think and summarise things. Thnxs.. things can come to fruitition faster with more ppl.. i feel my mind has moved slightly further on no matter how miniscule
The only real realization I came to while using the drug was that something in my life needed to change. It may have helped a little in the way of pointing out the fact that perceived reality is so flimsy... but that's it. If you don't stop there, then you continue to wallow in intoxicated delusion, and your grades suffer, your job suffers, your health suffers, your social life suffers, your spiritual advancement suffers, and on and on and on.
Take what you've learned from the experience for what it is: just more evidence that the mind is easily messed-with. Then quit. Trust me, after a while of not using it, you'll be surprised at just how sharp everything becomes again... shouldn't you really be here?
It kinda reminds me of people who go into relationships and walk out and say "Heck, that was crap!" and others who are like "Dude, at least there's something I learnt."
Ever seen a PET scan of a Marijuana user? the above is true in the case of phisiological brain activity. there are gaps and voids in the brain map. Really interesting.
I have seen scans of the brains of heavy marijuana smokers and they showed no differences from a normal brain but I don't know what kind of scans they were. But if you scanned the brain of a person using heavy pharmaceutical pain medication I'd be willing to bet there'd be areas receiving less blood flow than a normal brain, and blood flow is how brain activity is measured. I suppose if a CAT scan were used to scan the brain of a heavy marijuana user there'd be anomalies found, too.
My point is, when it comes to the medical use of marijuana, there are cases where it is most helpful, especially in comparison to the effects of pharmaceutical medication. When it comes to recreational use, marijuana, in my opinion, is less dangerous than alcohol. But the bottom line for a Buddhist is that marijuana interferes immensely with meditation, mostly when it comes to concentration, and is therefore a substance a Buddhist would not want to use for pain medication unless it was absolutely necessary, i.e. the pain is more distracting than the marijuana and there is no other substance that can help. As a recreational activity I can't see why any Buddhist would use marijuana at all.
There are many levels of pain and many different kinds of pain and they are all filtered through different perceptions and perspectives. The way I manage my pain as a Buddhist is to weigh the level of distraction of the pain and that of the pain reliever and take the lowest amount of medication possible. It took two years to find the right meds and to get the levels just right but my doctor and I did it and I walk this tight rope everyday. I allow a certain level of pain to come through in order not to be muddled by more meds but not enough pain to let it become distracting. Because pain IS distracting, lol! My doctor also knows that if I end up slowly dying in a hospital I don't want extra pain medication unless it becomes impossible to concentrate. He understands fully my need to be of sound, clear mind as much as is humanly possible, in everyday life as well as on my death bed.
If my life were perfect I would never have the need for pain medication. But it isn't, and I do. But there are ways to manage it if you really work at it and the worst that can be said of my mediation situation as it stands today is that sometimes my meds make me a little drowsy when meditating. But I understand that's a problem for many other people as well, who are not on any medication at all. Like Pema Chodron, for instance. So if the worst thing I have to fight is a little drowsiness when I meditate, I'm a very happy person. I can always meditate right before my next dose and use the pain to keep me alert. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually very grateful for the medications because without them I'd have no opportunity to meditate at all. Isn't life crazy?
But as for marijuana - I have no problem with people using it for recreational purposes or, even like peyote, using for something even a little more mystical. Not that I understand the whole "mystical" or "I'm expanding my horizons and perceptions" angle.
Using any intoxicant under the guise of "I'm expanding my conscienceness" is not the truth. To me it's like a veil you are pulling over your eyes for a certain period of time - and then reflecting back on that period like it's "the truth".
Living reality through intoxicants is no different than living a lie and believing it to be true. I also feel that some people wave the flag of "expanding conscienceness" because - when it comes down to it - they like getting high and now they want to justify it somehow.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've had some major mouth surgery done and I really, really dug the meds my doc gave me. I could take that stuff and feel like I was just floating through the air whilst talking to creatures that looked like giant doughnuts that had amazingly huge breasts and they would rub my ... whoops... I digress.
Just my $0.02 worth. Take it or leave it.
-bf
I experienced that exact same thing when I was doing acid!
I have a hard time believing that you found someone that would give you acid - especially whilst you were wearing your tiara...
-bf
Sadly, too many people did give me things like that when I lived in Chicago! Trust me, I did my fair share of drugs as well.....Wish I hadn't, but I used it for a cover to the prblems I had had in my life as a child. But I am much smarter than that now! It is one of my biggest regrets in life, but I suppose that it did teach me quite a bit! And heck, who knows what kind of person I would be now if I hadn't gone through all of that. Maybe I owuld have found something else to hide my problems in!
Dear Brigid,
as you know I respect you, I would just like to clarify my stance on the post I made that prompted your response as above^.
Perfectly understood. However,
Brain function with respect to PET scans may be measured with by glucose creation, oxygen uptake, blood flow, "tagged" bio-molecules, perfusion and diffusion. All of them show a particular dimension of physiological process-Not just blood flow, this is where I failed to explain what I was referring to in my post about brain function.
NOTE: CAT is the old term for CT (computed tomography) because Axial is not the only view available nowadays. A CT scan is primarily used for anatomical not physiological measurement, that I'm ranting on about at the moment.
Note I used the words "heavy-user".
PET and other NucMed applications measure physiological rather than anatomical "views" or dimensions of brain activity and function.
Side effects of pharmaceutical-based medications are predictable losses and sometimes recoverable,. Uncontrolled "addictive" quantities of pot etc. ingested by chemically-dependent users would far outweigh the levels of brain damage (usually below the addictive threshold levels of medically-prescribed pharmaceuticals), caused by officially-sanctioned drugs.
Having said that, of the top 10 pharmaceuticals used in the world The majority are plant-derived. Maybe one day marijuana will be similarly used and dosed according to need and predictive analysis will be performed.
Like always, and to the chagrin of some people who use this venue to whine about apologetic-types, (apologetic types such as myself), I could be wrong. If I have upset anyone-Sorry.
just my 2 cents worth.
best wishes,
Xrayman
edgar casey says the body detoxifys 7 cigarettes a day.
ms patients benefit muchly from smoking weed. among other diseases.. personally i have ulcerative colitis. i have been told nicotine is beneficial by my specialist.
weed and tobacco have been around many years.. they have there place. they really do.
ppl who are againest it dont no all.. they no only what they read or hear. i call it conditioning . all stats can be debated. check out who is writing them .. there is education there.
please . there is a place.. and if its recreational.. so be it!!!
big fat harry deal.. . geeesh!!
Are you referring to Edgar Cayce? The medium?? I'm not sure what medical qualifications he had wrt the matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce I've read this, but I can't seem to find any reference to his "cigarette theory".
Except I don't call being asthmatic being "conditioned against smoking"-just that it makes ME and my children gasp for clean air when affected by particulate cancer-causing smoke.
You have your rights-true, but not to MY or my children's air intake-thats mine and their rights.
I lived three years with a smoker-(not by choice)-and I have the emphysema to prove it (I never smoked a day in my life). so much for MY rights to clean air.
cheers!
Xrayman
i personally dont add to your dirty air.. well i guess i do.
sorry.. iv worked in factorys and i still drive a car that emits polution.
i havent yet did my part about large companies that cause chemicals we breath.
i live in the country so that i can control myself. i live among trees and lots of them.
sorry for your asthma... alot more ppl seem to have it these days..
i wonder why
i dont want to cause any hard feelings..altho i admit i wanted to be heard.. my ego did anyway.. and i thank this thread for me learning once again.. my ego got the best of me.
perhaps the war / the fight / againest smoking weed and cigarettes doesnt have to be a right and wrong thing..
if ppl choose so.. then the ones that dont like it have choice to be not with them. and the ones that do so i really really feel they are conciencious of others. we dont want to fight.
and my opinion still stays the same.. its a global issue of polution we need to be concerned with.
and from here my ego is tucked away with no more debates/ and wanting to prove my point.. no more replying to these threads because it brings out the worst in me. i dont want to judge or feel anger.. or feel the need to prove what i believe. thats why i said earlier i have reasons for leaving.. i hope you breath better for not being with your smoker friend anymore.. good choice for you im sure.
you are right my friend
best xray..
Not out to prove a point Colleen. I accept what you say, as well as you accept mine. I love the real meaning of argument. In this case, no one's ego got in the way-we were discussing an issue.
You brought up a good point about pollution though! We are experiencing a drought here in Oz-worst on record. we cannot wash our cars, water our gardens or our lawns-luckily we can still wash ourselves PHEW!
there have been instances of large companies/councils allowing water mains to remian unfixed for days at a time while the water gushes down the drain-(domestically speaking) if we do that we'd go to jail. WTF!
Smoking issue.
I was in the military so while I was doing basic training and training for my trade-I was stuck in the same room as a chain smoker-that's what I was referring to. i understand that it was not you-and it was not intended to say you. so no worries.
cheers
x
its me my dear .. my ego does get in the way. really it does.
and wow what a mess you are in. thats all to bad... we continue to try
but the problems of today seem so much bigger and beyond our control sometimes.
peace bro
I read somewhere (maybe it's true, maybe it's not - and I should look it back up) that having chronic pain reduces brain mass by about 10% or so over time. As for marijuana eating the brain, I'm not sure of the validity of that, either. I do know that other drugs (like crystal meth, do, but it's the first time I've heard about marijuana doing that). But if both are true, maybe I'm screwed either way. In which case, I'd like to be screwed without so much pain.
Thank you. That is very compassionate of you.
Hi, DharmaKitten.
Yes, that's true. My doctor even gave me a copy of the article about the studies that found this to be true. That's why he suggested I take up meditation, because it can counter those effects of chronic pain. Luckily I was able to tell him I already practiced Buddhist meditation and he was thrilled because the studies that found that meditation actually had all those beneficial effects on the brain were done on longterm practitioners of Buddhist meditation; Buddhist monks specifically.
This is a tough cookie, but I will just say it: marijuana does not facilitate more straightforward thought.
Aside from the issue of chronic pain relief (which I feel is too personal for me to make any recommendations), I want to gently but strongly recommend to you that there are no intoxicanting substances commendable as contemplative aids. If you are interested in Buddhist meditation, you should stop to consider the precept against taking intoxicants more seriously. In the Buddha's time, many priests were given to taking intoxicants as a part of their ritual experience. If the Buddha saw any benefit in this practice, he would not have named it as something to be avoided.
I hope all that doesn't come down too strong. It is not my intention to judge you. If you so choose, I believe you would be well-rewarded to experiment with meditation after an effective period of "detox," after the drug has gone enough out of your system.
in friendliness,
V.
you need to discuss in ur mind, whatever it is..and calm helps.. after about a month i found myself unable to get to the degree of meditative calm i orginally got..
nyways... not done any drugs lately
I thought that was put very well.
Wish I could write that... cautiously and considerately.
-bf
I understand what you mean. At the same time, I think that Elohim's post had a lot of merit when it noted the difference between mindfulness and alertness. It's really not possible to be mindful while high. Take this with a grain of salt (look at the source, heh), but I think that if you are able to delineate the difference between what you feel while high and meditative mindfulness, you'll have made a very significant step in your practice
buddhafoot, I wholly agree with you.
still.. I can see some difference.. i still think that meditation and drugs create falsely induced emotions and mindsets. :P but only one is 'not self-damaging'
How did you come to that conclusion, Celebrin? Do you think an emotion induced from talking to another person for instance would be rightly induced? How to arrive at a right mindest in your opinion?
What I imagine you are pointing at, Fofoo, is discernment. Few aspects of the spiritual life - or, indeed, life in general - are more troublesome that to distinguish between the more and the less skillful. No single subject is more often at the heart of conversations that I have with fellow-pilgrims.
One of the most original Christian Spiritual Directors was Ignatius of Loyola. Despite having moved some way from the classical interpretation of his theology, I still find his 'rules' for discernment to be powerful guides. Here is one of them: It asks us to do more than examine our intention in our actions. We must turn our attention, too, to the direction of their outcome.
i don't know about inducing emotions.. i have to think about that.. is meditation a falsly induced calm that leads u from reality and ur normal mindset.. or what? i have to think long and hard about.. it..