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Obsessions rationality vs wisdom vs intuition
slowmichael
Explorer
According to a friend of mine intuition is a mix of all things a person has ever learned, experienced, seen, captured by what a person reeds in newspapers, movies, and so on. Rationality according to this same friend rationality is thinking and well sometimes not the best for solving problems.
I have been battling on and of all of my adult live with obsessional thinking. Obsessions around deathly accidents that might happen to people in the future. Example my house has been build and there are a few faults made during construction. Some off these issues have been adjusted others i controlled and i considered safe enough. Unfortenatly my mind is always scanning for possible unsafe situations and guess what..... i always find something. If i judge these things by using my intuition then i can tell this is problem with a very very low probability of ever happening, accept it and let it be, there will be no accidents. If i use rationality then things get complicated, i have to look at all possibilities and i end up by finding possibilities that could actually make the situation dangerous.
Most of my friends tell me to use my intuition, for me that feels like an easy way to avoid responsibility. But i am aware that my rationality is pushing me always to the worst possible outcome.
I guess that i make decisions on a fear based rationality i guess that in buddhism the best option would be to use wisdom. I do not see the difference between intuition and wisdom.
I made the decision to face these fears under guidance of a therapist but i am convinced that i can only do this when i learn to use and (most important) trust something else then my rationality .
Kind regards.
Michel
I have been battling on and of all of my adult live with obsessional thinking. Obsessions around deathly accidents that might happen to people in the future. Example my house has been build and there are a few faults made during construction. Some off these issues have been adjusted others i controlled and i considered safe enough. Unfortenatly my mind is always scanning for possible unsafe situations and guess what..... i always find something. If i judge these things by using my intuition then i can tell this is problem with a very very low probability of ever happening, accept it and let it be, there will be no accidents. If i use rationality then things get complicated, i have to look at all possibilities and i end up by finding possibilities that could actually make the situation dangerous.
Most of my friends tell me to use my intuition, for me that feels like an easy way to avoid responsibility. But i am aware that my rationality is pushing me always to the worst possible outcome.
I guess that i make decisions on a fear based rationality i guess that in buddhism the best option would be to use wisdom. I do not see the difference between intuition and wisdom.
I made the decision to face these fears under guidance of a therapist but i am convinced that i can only do this when i learn to use and (most important) trust something else then my rationality .
Kind regards.
Michel
0
Comments
@slowmichael
(IMO) Wisdom is just the absence of our ego/identity limitations.
It is much sought after by many Buddhist practioners but our very seeking of it is usually what prevents us from finding it.
Practicing compassion & love will allow wisdom to reveal itself but only proportionately to our success at not trying to cling to it or anything else.
The fears you wish to face can be with a therapist, through meditation
or through both.
accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.020.than.html The next part of this sutta is the case of the monk 'if he were to die in the day'
I read this as an invitation to refocus the mind to the ACTUAL reality that surrounds the chaos of living in a world where anything can go wrong no matter how vigilant you are.
The surrounding reality being the recognition of the impure state of our MIND as it perceives how our house is built, our children cared for by doctors, our money handled by bankers, our car and the car mechanics.
And finally, the Buddha says once we've dealt with the unskillful MENTAL QUALITIES that would be an obstruction were death (the root of all fear) to occur, the result is to dwell in joy and rapture, a very nice rest from the obsessive worry
I'm very VERY beginnerish at applying suttas to real life situations, so I hope if I missed an important point or got something wrong it will be pointed out for you
The rational approach to this is to try to broaden your perspective to include the opportunities you have to improve things. If there is something you can sensibly do about one of the risks you perceive, do it. Otherwise, find something more productive to focus on. Metta meditation is very useful for this.
http://www.buddhanet.net/oxherd1.htm
Since meditating i am aware of the fact that fear is always with me and it is the cause for my condition. But then the question is the fear for what. Death? I have a motorbike riding can be very dangerous. I have been driving my motorbike for many years and have had one severe accident and had a lot of luck a few times with potentially life threatening situations. That does not stop me from driving my motorbike. I had a severe hart situation in 2012 i was told that i could have a deadly hart failure, i had surgery and all is good now. Of course i was not to happy with this knowledge but i did not feel very scared.
As far as i can see my biggest fear is mental suffering. I am very afraid of getting in a situation where i would be in never ending feelings of fear and also guilt. For me that is far worse then dying.
I can not live with myself if i have the feeling that i could cause something that could injure or worse end up in the death of somebody. That of course is normal but my perception of risk is distorted most people would judge that the situations that i judge as dangerous are probably not perfect but certainly are not very dangerous.
Five bells wrote improve things if sensibly possible about the situations that i see as potentially dangerous. I could indeed do things to improve these items but hey that would cost a lot of money, worse my wife my children would suffer and disagree with me. It would take some serious rebuilding of my house. For what? For things that are very unlikely to happen.
I guess the buddhist way would be to embrace these fears, and believe me i try this. But it is so hard to be non judgmental about feeling this fear. I also do not see the impermanence of this situation.
Sorry that i use this forum for this item but OCD forums are so full of negativity. I do not need that.
I am very grateful that i found buddhism it has made me a better person in many ways. I am also very grateful for al the reactions that i already received they are all inspiring and lessened my suffering already a little.
Thanks.
Michel
I imagine that 'the Buddhist way' of embracing the fears would include knowing them inside and out (the first and second noble truths), and consistent, persistent work toward minimizing them even if you can only do so molecule by molecule.
There is a Tibetan Buddhist monk named Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche who's a younger fellow in his 40's and has written a few books for western Buddhists. I have "The Joy of Living" on my kindle, and in reading it he tells how he was recognized at a very young age to be the rebirth of a certain beloved Rinpoche. He also tells about his debilitating anxiety, which in the west would be classic Panic Disorder, or Generalized Anxiety Disorder. He describes it in very engaging detail, up to his experience in his first retreat at age 13 where it sounds like he was very nearly torn apart as the anxiety sort of burst out of him and then left him for good. I am glad there are more gentle ways of becoming free of mental issues than what he described
Definitely keep doing what you are doing; it's only honest to admit you don't see impermanence right now, but you will see it if you keep practicing. Notice your self doubt as well, but not as a realistic evaluation of where you are going or what you are capable of. Self doubt is one of the five hindrances, and you can be free of it just like anyone else. Your OCD is a powerful foe, but I think the practice is much, much more powerful than any human mental issue. Especially for you, as your self awareness is excellent. You're all set up to defeat this. It's just a matter of practice and detemined effort to dismantle and disempower the OCD thoughts. However long it takes, you know? Even a percentage of diminishment is a gift, and will ease you so much, and strengthen you toward further diminishment.
He 'personalises them, and treats them like an irritating relative... the kind you have to invite, through obligation, to a family gathering, but whom you would desperately wish to never actually have to engage with, again.... Haven't we all known someone like that, at one point or another?
five bells thanks for the link to the proactive approach of fear, very inspiring.
The therapy approach is if a negative tought comes up do not react to it there will be fear of course but sit with the fear. Sounds familiar does it not.
I find this to be more possible if i am listening to a guided meditation like the one fivebells provided me. Otherwise it is like getting pushed in a sea of fear with high waves. So some guidance ore someone to talk to after such an overwhelming experience is needed, otherwise i think that this can end up to be contra productive.
Guilt is playing a big part in this to. I was brought up in a very guilt inducing environment. I can really beat myself up with guilt and feelings of being an immoral person.
As i stated before most of the time i am in balance and i certainly had my part of happiness in my life. But sometimes the blows are so heavy that i am on my knees. I am on my knees now. I was always able to stand up again.
When i ask most classical therapists about this guilt i mostly get the answer; that is the way you are we can not change that. I personally think this is one of the roots of my problem. There are other roots to but i do not see them clearly.
Could metta meditation help?
I know that the problem is that i am beating me up over very unlikely events that i could cause or could have caused injury or death of other people. The cognitive side is telling me it is not a big deal just accept that things are not perfect accept it and move on. The emotional side is guilt, fear, shame. So i end up feeling very bad.
Kind regards.
Michel
We are all on our knees, whether we know it or not, and Metta mediation is for some, but not all, and let me tell you without fear of contradiction that you are not the cause of my or his or her suffering. Just don't be reckless, don't be beating yourself up over something you haven't done, and if you are true to yourself, everyone will be true to you.
I like the quote of Mark Twain's, that goes like this (I think): 'if you never tell a lie, you will never have to remember anything!"
I listened to this tonight and for some reason, wanted to share it here, yes the bold and italicised section are important for my understanding - maybe they resonate with you and others!
Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never shared
No one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
"Fools," said I, "you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sound of silence"
Michel
Thanks.
Michel
I generally start and end each meditation by listening to one of his talks.
His With Each & Every Breath is an excellent book for beginning meditators, and provides a good overview with references to his other work.
Michel