Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Five Positive *Dzogchen* Precepts.
Citta
Veteran
I undertake the rule of training to;
Refrain from killing rigpa.
Refrain from stealing opportunities for awakening.
Remain in the embrace of inner wisdom.
Refrain from expressing the lie of duality.
Refrain from being intoxicated by duality.
NB
This is not a critique of the sutra precepts.
It stands alone as part of the Dzogchen view.
4
Comments
You still haven't told us what the View is.
Norm,
Dzogchen teachers work for years to get that view across to their students and many never really get it.
And you expect Citta to try to explain it in the context of a forum like this?
Good luck with that!
Besides, are you really that interested? It's not found in the Pali, nor is to be found in a any flavor of practice and study you seem to favor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen
I think that "killing rigpa" is impossible.
And I never will..neither will anyone else tell 'us' what the View is.
Not because it is a secret, but because it is not a verbal formula. it is a verb not a noun.
It is something you do.
@Citta this is cool! Thanks
all buddha dharma points to the essence!
alas, it is impossible to capture the wind no matter how beautiful your calligraphy
Dzogchen view may be formulated in a variety of ways. Here is my misunderstanding:
It [the view] is the True Realisation of Absolute Nature just as it is here and now.
What you make of it is your mistake.
Mettha
Those are words @anataman. Words ABOUT the View. They are no better or worse than any other words.
If someone is interested in the experience then there is no alternative to finding an authentic Dzogchen teacher and receiving " Pointing Out " instructions.
I know
And that was my point
Nothing beats self-instruction, if it is free of ego. and this is not.
So what is the point of any view?
If it leads nowhere...
Channeling @lobster?
It's the view that brings the path and the path the fruit.
If you have the view of suffering and the path leading towards freedom then that will be your view and your path and your fruit.
If you have the Dzogchen view of the Trikaya is already the case then there is a path and fruit.
In each case there is always a view. Even sentient beings have a view of is or isn't.
If we understand basic dependent origination we can see that the view conditions perception, which in turn creates the whole world.
So the Buddha's teaches us various views (vehicles of dharma) to dispel the illusory suffering we appear to have.
Too much jargon and vagueness in this thread.
If people are using tradition-specific terms or jargon then I think it's reasonable to expect an explanation.
So why are you even discussing it on a forum like this?
My understanding is that New Buddhist is a pan- Buddhist forum.
The thread is for those who may have or develop an interest in Dzogchen.
It need not detain anyone who has not.
I have no interest in abstract debate, and no need to convince anyone of anything.
If anyone does have such an interest they can pm me and I will point them towards information that might be useful.
There's no one holding a gun to your head to participate....
Personally, I find the OP facinating and I'm not particularly interested in Dzogchen as a practice. But I also realize that it's experiential and as such defies easy answers.
It's nice to try and see others points of view isn't it
in this moment, what is the briefest?
in this image, what is the smallest part?
dissolve all conception of how things are not
and you will arrive no further than the truth.
Thank you.
No, Thank you for the Dzogchen view!
I cant give you that. but I know a man who can.
Here is an excerpt from an essay on the topic of Buddhist salvation, specifically in reference to "view":
"The Path of Ati Dzogpa Chenpo: In order to transcend the confines of samsara,
one walks a path to reach the supramundane fruit of nirvana. In various teachings, like many in
the Vajrayana, assert the fruit as going beyond fear of samsara and desire/hope for nirvana,
however this does not entail the fruit not being nirvana, for such a realization of the true nature
of samsara and nirvana is entailed in the very manifestation of nirvana. However, in the
Dzogchen teachings there are radical methods whereby samsara is totally surpassed and nirvana
is uninterruptedly manifest. The three aspects of Path in all Buddhist vehicles are tawa (lTa-ba)
normally meaning view; gompa (sGom-pa), meaning contemplation; and chopa (sPyod-pa)
meaning regulated behavior. The Atiyana however applies these aspects in very different senses
than in other Buddhist paths.
Concerning tawa, in the Dzogchen teachings it is born from direct awareness that the true
nature is absolutely ineffable and unthinkable, and so tawa is not a merely theoretical view,
instead referring to the direct non-conceptual undistorted non-dual view of the Base, which is our
original and perfect nature, the total completeness, plenitude, and perfection. The first
manifestation of the tawa, which is the entrance to this Path, is the Direct Introduction, which is
the initial sudden unveiling of our original uncompounded condition of Dzogchen (total
completeness, plentitude, and perfection) in the state of rigpa. Direct Introduction is nothing
short of the temporary and spontaneous dissolution of delusion, the delusory
valuation-absolutization of thoughts (most critically the directional threefold thought structure
giving rise to the subject-object duality and so the necessary condition for the arising of the
discursive passions) and other mental functions that lead to the original perfection and
completeness, the Dzogchen, to be hidden from the narrowly focused consciousness which
becomes associated and obsessed with an illegitimate mental subject.76 After the initial
spontaneous Direct Introduction, one has to apply the methods again and again that allow the
continued spontaneous manifestation of the tawa until the subsequent emergence of delusion no
longer causes doubts to arise concerning the truth of the tawa insofar as the true nature of reality
is the single undivided and non-conceptual condition. This doesn’t mean that one has conceptual
certainty or that one has decided or concluded something concerning the nature of reality, rather
that the non-conceptual certainty attained in the state of rigpa has percolated into the state of
mind, so that there is no need to decide due to a spontaneous absolute certitude concerning the
true nature of reality. "...
Therefore in Dzogchen the view is necessarily not theoretical or described over the forum. Look at your mind.