Rangtong versus Shentong

Jeffrey

This thread is about trying to better understand the difference between rangtong and shentong. You are free to debate the matter, but the purpose is for all concerned to learn more.

My understanding of the difference is that rangtong is emptiness of a conditioned illusory self.

"So I say to you -
This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:"

"Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream."

"So is all conditioned existence to be seen."

Thus spoke Buddha.

The s_hentong is the ungraspability or emptiness of the unconditional mind. It is the emptiness of changeless reality beyond birth and death._

Knowing that relative apprehensions are “self-empty,” rang-stong, and knowing that mind’s true nature is “empty of other,” gzhan-stong, a sincere practitioner no longer slips into garments that are extreme views about creation or cessation. Seeing that all phenomena that can be apprehended are empty of an own essence, one no longer clings to the extreme of permanence. Seeing that mind’s true nature is replete with many invaluable qualities that manifest spontaneously and naturally, one no longer clings to the extreme of nihilism or cessation. Since all relative phenomena that appear are empty of a self, it is conclusive that the mind that apprehends and conceives relative appearances is also empty of a self. Since mind’s true nature transcends what can be accomplished, affirmed, or refuted, then what one thinks must be accomplished and what one thinks must be abandoned are always and already pure and free

http://www.dharmadownload.org/pages/english/Natsok/0010_Teaching_English/Teaching_English_0010.htm

lobster

Since mind’s true nature transcends what can be accomplished, affirmed, or refuted, then what one thinks must be accomplished and what one thinks must be abandoned are always and already pure and free

Be very careful of this part. It does not mean the unrealised have the purity and freedom to be douchbags. It means in part, the empty/realised, may form into expressions of non self, not being attached to the form, whatever the appearance.
This is why abusive and corrupt teachers, lacking integrity are so full of it. Ultimately they are empty, relatively they are not transcended, pure and freeing . . .

Jeffrey

@lobster
Before practicing this way we have to first not want anger or suffering. It is a preliminary. If Khenpo Rinpoche were teaching in a prison setting he would start from that context. But we at NB for the most part are decent hooman beans.

Before listening to Lord Buddha’s teachings, I want to ask you to give rise to supreme bodhicitta. Supreme bodhicitta is generated and increased by first thinking of one’s father and mother in this life and then extending the gratitude and love one feels for them to all sentient beings, even to one’s enemies. We want to attain the state of complete and perfect enlightenment for their sake. We know that in order to be able to benefit all sentient beings, we need to listen to, reflect, and meditate upon the genuine Dharma teachings with all the enthusiasm we can muster in our hearts. Please give rise to supreme bodhicitta when you listen attentively.

We think of our parents first, because the fact that we are able to practice the Dharma in this lifetime is due to the immense kindness they have shown us. We think of our enemies, too, because they are the ones who give us the exceptional opportunity to practice patience when they are unkind and hurt us. Furthermore, there is not a single enemy who was not our caring father or mother at one time in the past, so that is why we remember them with gratitude. We think of the nature of the minds of the people we are associated with - our friends, our enemies, and all sentient beings. We know that every single sentient being’s nature of mind is clear light, the enlightened heart that is the Buddha nature. Since everyone has Buddha nature, we can be sure that we will benefit others immensely. Just as the nature of our own mind is clear light, the nature of our parents’ minds is also clear light. Likewise, the mind’s nature of all our friends and enemies is clear light. The nature of mind of every single sentient being is luminosity, clear light.

http://www.dharmadownload.org/pages/english/Natsok/0010_Teaching_English/Teaching_English_0010.htm

atiyana

My understanding of the difference is that rangtong is emptiness of a conditioned illusory self.

They are both empty of a conditioned illusory self.