Should we seek stillness of mind?
Jeffrey
Veteran
Some may have the idea that rigpa or the Natural State is a state of stillness in which moving thoughts and perceptions appear and disappear.
However rigpa has no quality about it that could be considered to be still. Is space "still"? What is there about empty space that could be still? What is there about empty space that could move?
If this isn't clear then the mind imagines some super transparent and invisible consciousness that remains unmoving or still. But there is nothing there that could either be moving or still. That would be the mind not rigpa.
We tend to think that movement is occurring in the space of stillness. Then we think "stillness" is closer to rigpa than movement. We then shun mental movement. Neither of these dualities apply to rigpa, and are both extremes. Rigpa is completely beyond such descriptions.
This is why the goal of having a "still mind" is not Ati, although the mind does become still in Ati.
Comments
Verse 372. There Is No Wisdom In Those Who Do Not Think
"There's no jhana for one with no discernment,
no discernment for one with no jhana.
But one with both jhana & discernment:
he's on the verge of Unbinding."
Explanation: For one who lacks calm there is no wisdom. Both calm and insight are essential and cannot be had without the other. If in a person, both calm(samatha) and insight(vipassana) are present, he is close to Nibbana.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/dhammapada372.htm
I'm no scholar, but I think it's an error to assume "stillness" or "calm" is equivalent to "blankness" or "no activity."
Another interpretation could be to achieve a level of clarity in which one can be flexible to whatever phenomena arises, instead of blocking it with judgment and ego.
People just use 'stillness' as a metaphor. It's impossible for the mind to be completely still as in 'no thought'. Less rampant thoughts more likely.
I agree with you; its about having less rampant thoughts. If I need to quiet my mind for meditation, I focus on my breathing - In, out, one, two, in, out, one, two...
Other times, if my mind continues to wonder, I will think the word "nothing" over and over until my mental pictures changes from what I couldn't get out of my mind, into a blank, white space.
Now I'm still thinking of the white space - but my mind has been stilled from what I was thinking about before.
Regarding meditation, arduous practice is far more beneficial than instant success.
A blank white space is not the aim...
Relaxed awareness is the aim.
Can you see that " arduous relaxation " is an oxymoron ?
A blank white space isn't the aim - I mentioned it because that image is far less "active" than whatever is exciting my mind at that moment.
I used "arduous practice" regarding learning how to meditate - how many people succeed on their first try? Very few. They can try to be as prepared as possible, but meditation is learned only through practice and effort - "effort" meaning learning how one can achieve relaxed awareness.
A blank white space is just as active as any other image or mental activity.
We are not aiming at a lack of mental activity.
We are aiming at one pointed awareness.
With the arising of awareness the mind's hubbub slows automatically..but that is a by -product.
A by-product that feels like a relief if we are habituated to rapid thoughts.
But the aim is a relaxed and alert state. Not the suppression of thoughts.
Thoughts will come and go. Like clouds in the sky...let them.
I will remember this, thank you.
you are welcome..
_/_
Yep.
We should never achieve it though . . .
You must grasp the emptiness. Tighten around it and let go. Repeat until the stillness inside the tightening is the holder and the held . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen
In terms of light, focus on the light but let go of the light and the focus.
Perhaps we can understand it in terms of 'CarLuv' from another thread . . .
Love the car but love the love more. In other words be the driver not the driven.
When we sit still, we may move. So when we move we are still
Still.
You can not tighten your way to relaxation. You can not take love, you have to give it to make it.
To be still one must not squirm.
Deepak Chopra? Pah!
Actually most of those who are taught meditation, are able to meditate right away.
I think mastered would be a better term than learned.
@Lobster, do you smoke pot?
No.
Hmph... coulda sworn.....
So you come by it honestly....
To seek a stillness of mind is to not trust in a practice of seeking nothing.
Stillness can result from many influences and in itself may have little to do with the path towards sufferings cessation.
Consider that perhaps the very waves that separate us from a stillness of mind are simply the consequences of our seeking.
What would a meditation practice, where nothing was sought after, look like?
'I'll have what she is having'
From when 'When Harry Met Sally'
I will take that as an actual rather than rhetorical question . . .
Taoist influence of Zen kicks in . . .
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits.
Satchel Paige
US baseball player (1906 - 1982)
When we start meditating we 'try and get results'. However eventually we 'try' not to try.
The Sufis say, 'increase in love', the American Zen equivalent might be 'In love we sit'.
However . . . us beginners have to focus on objects of mind movement, mind stillness and mind on mind action . . .
Play hard. Work softly.