Ok Just Follow Me For A Moment
ThailandTom
Veteran
I was thinking about a woman who, I think it was in Malaysia some time ago? She got caught trafficking a large amount of heroin, a Western woman. She was given the death penalty. However she got off and was handed down life because she fell pregnant. The reason to how remained a mystery but it got me thinking. It most likely was one of the guards, willingly on her part or not.
So, lets say it was willingly and she made friends with a guard who said that he knew she could get off of the death sentence if she was pregnant, and she agreed. Now lets say you are the male guard, would you try and save her life by getting her pregnant? You would be maybe violating laws of Malaysia, but you save a life. Is it worth saving for the charges she was convicted of?
Comments
Absolutely. Come to think of it, I can't think of a reason not to...but I'm certain someone will come along and enlighten me soon. Well, not that enlighten...
She "fell" pregnant?
Death might have been preferable to life in a Malaysian prison. With or without the baby.
Have you considered what the life of a western heroin smuggling woman sentenced to life in a Malaysian prison systems child might be like?
Yes, that's an awkwardly written sentence.
This could be true yes, however life is a gift and you could technically make some kind of quality of life there, it depends I guess on the person
Living next to and having been to Malaysia yes I have thought about it. I have also seen documentaries on such prison systems
To clarify, I question the ethics of bringing a child into these circumstances
Given the situation as presented, I agree that compassion should always trump rules. Given the reality of infamous hell those prisons are, and the probable widespread rape and abuse of women prisoners (especially foreign ones) it's more likely she was abused by the guards but it ended up saving her life.
I never thought about that to be honest, yes it would be saving a life, but also creating another one. I have always said that to bring a life into this world you need stability, a solid home life, financial backup and love. Some of those would be missing :P
I don't disagree that those things are beneficial but know many people who have not had the luxury of those and yet are grateful for life nonetheless.
I would imagine if she were serving life without parole, she would not be serving it with the child in prison with her. Most likely the child would be given up for adoption, or go to her western family depending on the laws there. Whether that would be a good thing or not, no one knows. Just like any other family situation, adopted kids (whether family or otherwise) might live amazing loved and supported lives, or not.
I can't impregnate anyone to my knowledge, LOL. From the other side of the fence, as an ovary carrier, if there was a choice involved, I would not opt to get pregnant to save my own life. Despite where the baby might end up, the state of the mind and body of the woman while pregnant can have a huge impact on the baby, and I wouldn't want to do that to a baby out of saving my own life even if the baby would go to my family.There are a lot of reasons people have babies, but I personally would not opt to bring a child into the world in order to save my own hide. I'm not even sure how I feel about people who bring a child into the world to save another child.
This is just my personal views on birth these days.
I do have a bit of insight into what prison is like, though it is lacking significantly when it comes to Malaysia. What I do know, and I'm mentioning this only because you and others might find it interesting, is that over half the prison population there is made up of foreigners. Of that number, the overwhelming majority are in for drug offences.
Why?
Is dukkha of others eased? Is anyone's? Who is ready for picnicking in hell? Anybody? Already there?
Not following you . . .
LOL what? Are you implying that I try and consider the suffering of every single living thing on this planet at once?
I iz implying dealing with our suffering as a priority . . .
Tom, that's my issue with the concept of infinite compassion. I think it's a fantasy.
If it's a fantasy, it's a well-meant fantasy....
I don't think you have to pinpoint every individual person. When our town goes through struggles, I practice tonglen for the community as a whole. And often times, the country and the planet, or other smaller groups of people, like the community of Boston. Obviously we can't contemplate the number of beings on the planet. But you can assign them a group and practice compassion for them as a group. Then when you are out in the world, your compassion for dealing with people on a personal level is also increased, which is where the real differences come in.
I don't think the Bodhisattva ideal or archetype of infinite compassion is fantasy.
It is obvious as long as every living thing draws breath it will not be possible to save or help them all for a number of reasons. Avalokiteshvara discovered that and blew apart in his despair, so Amitabha refashioned him with thousands of arms to help him pursue his vow which of course there is no end.
Compassion has more to do with an inner spirit or heart that one cultivates which has no limits or bounds as there are infinite beings in existence then with measuring how many have been helped or those remaining to be helped, so it not like saying it has been accomplished or something achieved like a college degree.
Shantideva says:
May I be protector for those without one,
A guide for all travelers on the way;
May I be a bridge, a boat and a ship
For all who wish to cross the water.
May I be an island for those who seek one
And a lamp for those desiring light,
May I be a bed for all who wish to rest
And a slave for all who want a slave.
May I be a wishing jewel, a magic vase,
Powerful mantras and great medicine,
May I become a wish-fulfilling tree
And a cow of plenty for the world.
Just like space
And the great elements such as earth,
May I always support the life
Of all the boundless creatures.
And until they pass away from pain
May I also be the source of life
For all the realms of varied beings
That reach unto the ends of space
Since there will always be beings in need of help we do the best we can to give, but also knowing that if someone doesn't want to receive our help then there's not much we can do either. However, that no matter what happens this inner spirit is held and cultivated without despair.
^ That is my favorite section of that book
I really do believe that initially we have to practice compassion, but eventually, we just become it. You can see/feel it in advanced practitioners and teachers. They don't just practice compassion and then stop. They ARE compassion, all the time. It comes out of them like sweat. So I indeed think it is possible.
Mine too @karasti
What a beautiful spirit with which to live one's life. Though if you ask those whom you perceive to embody it in all humility they will deny it because they are aware of their own short comings and know that they are still off the mark so to speak, but they help us see how far we are off the mark and show us it is possible that we can experience change in our hearts and live that way too.