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@Zero said:
In which case, the 'problem if you're wrong' translates as a 'care to be right'. I think that it doesn't matter what others say or what information is presented - I think understanding is subjective and in many ways is akin to a personal journey.
Yeah, I didn't make myself clear at all, did I? I can see how you arrived at that conclusion. To clarify...and maybe this is just semantics, but here it is:
Let's say that I believe that meditating while laying in bed is a pretty nifty idea and the right way to do it. I don't care about thinking that I'm doing it right - I want someone to tell me that I would be better served in a seated position - but when they do, I want to know that it is good advice. I want to know that they're right - not me.
Interestingly enough, such a thread was recently submitted here on NB and the responses went about 85% that he should be sitting rather than laying down. Do I play the numbers? Do I say, "Well, 85% is a lot, I should take that as good advice." What if the 15% who said laying down is fine are all monks and the 85% is comprised of lay folks only? What if it's 55%-45%?
I do understand the personal journey aspect, but as you know, it can take years for a meditation practice to yield significant results. Me meditating laying down will produce results but it'll be slower than in a seated position. But there I am laying down and discover that I'm getting results - why would I change my practice? I have a chapter in my last book entitled, "Good is the enemy of the great" and I think that's at the core of the matter for me. I want to get as much out of my practice as I can. I don't want to waste time.
Just to be clear, I do have a regular meditation practice and I do so seated. The above was simply an example. Anyway, you folks really are great and I appreciate all the time everyone has given to me in this thread. I am still working my way through the responses and today is very busy, but wanted to address this before I'm out the door again.
@Chaz said:
It's not meaning, is a question of value. Break a promise your word is of no value. That is how it works.
We are discussing religion, Chaz, not a mere commodity [hopefully]. Religion is all about values and purpose. Value and purpose are the most fundamental aspects of meaning.
And significantly to the topic, it's not meaningless to those who believe the lies. Religious truths don't need to be true, they only need to be meaningful.
This would seem to be a good example of grasping and clinging.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2014
Can we all stop trying to be clever, practising one-upmanship with smart words, and just focus on yagr's thread?
Any more of this bitching crap, and i'm going to be doing some heavy editing.
I do understand the personal journey aspect, but as you know, it can take years for a meditation practice to yield significant results.
"Good is the enemy of the great" and I think that's at the core of the matter for me.
I want to get as much out of my practice as I can.
I don't want to waste time.
I'm not sure it's correct that it can take years for meditation to yield results - personally I've found the results right there in the meditation so I suppose in that sense, if a result is sought, it seems simultaneous with the activity.
The issue of wasting time was raised in another thread - perhaps if you can outline to yourself how you consider it is possible to 'waste time' and what you plan to do with all the additional 'results of practice' you aim to collect then an answer/building block that works for you may present itself.
Any wider and I think we're straying into 'what is the purpose of life' territory.
I think it can be easy over time to say it's taken years to "get to this point" because over longer periods we can look back and see where we were and where we are now in our practice (both in meditation and in life). The changes are usually small, but cumulative. I wouldn't be able to tell you on a day-to-day basis what results I see, but I can tell you what they have been over the months or years. The truth is, it's taken me years to get to this point. The results I see today were not there on day 2. So for me, when I say it's taken years, that is the point of view I am coming from.
@Nevermind said:
And significantly to the topic, it's not meaningless to those who believe the lies. Religious truths don't need to be true, they only need to be meaningful.
Apprapo...
...but there's no way of verifying that some popular post is also a accurate post.
Posts may be popular because they are merely meaningful, or merely because they come from like minded posters. Accuracy is quite often irrelevant.
Ideally, religion acts as a catalyst for people to work together for mutual benefit. Unfortunately however, it can also work as a catalyst for group selfishness. So how can we tell if the promise is met or the promise is false? Selfishness is expressed in many ways.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
This is in danger of off-shooting to the point where the OP's concerns become irrelevant.
Please begin a new thread.
@Citta said:
Something that occurs to me is that in my own experience the times that seem most barren in retrospect turn out to have been the most fruitful.
Although it doesn't feel like that at the time.
That kinda follows what Trungpa taught. I remember reading a teaching where he said, (and I paraphrase) that when things start to get boring is when things start to happen in your practice.
I don't think that approaching the Path with a mind towards progress is such a good ideas. Better, I think, to practice for the practice, not to become something. There will be progress. It's hard not to see or look for it, but it's still an effect that has a cause and so, impermanent.
Better to simply practice.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
They do say that the best way to 'walk the path' is to simply keep putting one foot in front of the other.... And at times, when our heads swim with so much confusing information, so many decisions to be made, so much to be analysed, so much to be understood, digested, processed.....it's nice to simply pause, breathe, take a good long look at the panoramic scenery, then just begin walking again..... It's all good, it's all ok. Stop flogging yourself or putting such high expectations upon yourself.
Just walk.
Wanting progress is natural, and practice is simply paying attention to that. Wanting peace is natural, and practice is simply paying attention to that.
The practice of simply paying attention probably sorts everything out eventually, cuz like, if you're paying attention, you might eventually see the futility of selfishness.
@federica said:
I think 'Warring groups' is a bit strong; but dissent and disagreement; that's part of being human. And we often get away with a lot more, in our responses on here, than we might if we were face-to-face with the very people we're arguing with.
Given my experience on here as opposed to other forums I have recently interacted with, I would strongly confirm that most people get away with a lot more on here than other forums. Face-to-face, I think some of us would find out the truth as opposed to what we think we can/should get away with.
Back to the OP question though:
how would you long term members recommend for us to make the use of NB to move forward with as little confusion, misguidance and missteps as possible?
I would suggest reading as much as you can on the posts here, asking as many questions as you need to, and, later on, choose your battles wisely.
What's wrong with confusion, misguidance, and missteps?
Some things will work for you, some things won't. What better way than to try and see? You'll find plenty of people with varying perspectives, and lots of experience to back them up. Some of the advice will turn out to be great, other advice near-useless. But you won't really know what works for you until you try a few different ways of doing things.
Read all you can, experiment, notice what happens, repeat.
Comments
First of all, thanks to everyone who responded.
Yeah, I didn't make myself clear at all, did I? I can see how you arrived at that conclusion. To clarify...and maybe this is just semantics, but here it is:
Let's say that I believe that meditating while laying in bed is a pretty nifty idea and the right way to do it. I don't care about thinking that I'm doing it right - I want someone to tell me that I would be better served in a seated position - but when they do, I want to know that it is good advice. I want to know that they're right - not me.
Interestingly enough, such a thread was recently submitted here on NB and the responses went about 85% that he should be sitting rather than laying down. Do I play the numbers? Do I say, "Well, 85% is a lot, I should take that as good advice." What if the 15% who said laying down is fine are all monks and the 85% is comprised of lay folks only? What if it's 55%-45%?
I do understand the personal journey aspect, but as you know, it can take years for a meditation practice to yield significant results. Me meditating laying down will produce results but it'll be slower than in a seated position. But there I am laying down and discover that I'm getting results - why would I change my practice? I have a chapter in my last book entitled, "Good is the enemy of the great" and I think that's at the core of the matter for me. I want to get as much out of my practice as I can. I don't want to waste time.
Just to be clear, I do have a regular meditation practice and I do so seated. The above was simply an example. Anyway, you folks really are great and I appreciate all the time everyone has given to me in this thread. I am still working my way through the responses and today is very busy, but wanted to address this before I'm out the door again.
hugs to all who want them.
Or to put it another way, your word is meaningless. See how that works, Chaz?
Let me be kind to others but only if and when convenient? Part of the wow vow
. . . still we can always prefer the obviously 'useful', that we have no aversion to . . .
. . . and now back to the meaningful . . .
It's not meaning, is a question of value. Break a promise your word is of no value. That is how it works.
We are discussing religion, Chaz, not a mere commodity [hopefully]. Religion is all about values and purpose. Value and purpose are the most fundamental aspects of meaning.
To put it plainly, a liars word is meaningless. I trust that you understand that much.
It's not meaningless to the liar.
And significantly to the topic, it's not meaningless to those who believe the lies. Religious truths don't need to be true, they only need to be meaningful.
This would seem to be a good example of grasping and clinging.
Can we all stop trying to be clever, practising one-upmanship with smart words, and just focus on yagr's thread?
Any more of this bitching crap, and i'm going to be doing some heavy editing.
Thank you.
@yagr said:
I want to get as much out of my practice as I can.
I don't want to waste time.
I'm not sure it's correct that it can take years for meditation to yield results - personally I've found the results right there in the meditation so I suppose in that sense, if a result is sought, it seems simultaneous with the activity.
The issue of wasting time was raised in another thread - perhaps if you can outline to yourself how you consider it is possible to 'waste time' and what you plan to do with all the additional 'results of practice' you aim to collect then an answer/building block that works for you may present itself.
Any wider and I think we're straying into 'what is the purpose of life' territory.
I think it can be easy over time to say it's taken years to "get to this point" because over longer periods we can look back and see where we were and where we are now in our practice (both in meditation and in life). The changes are usually small, but cumulative. I wouldn't be able to tell you on a day-to-day basis what results I see, but I can tell you what they have been over the months or years. The truth is, it's taken me years to get to this point. The results I see today were not there on day 2. So for me, when I say it's taken years, that is the point of view I am coming from.
Something that occurs to me is that in my own experience the times that seem most barren in retrospect turn out to have been the most fruitful.
Although it doesn't feel like that at the time.
Yeah - it's when it stops being 'fun' and the schytt hits the fan where the real test lies...
Apprapo...
Posts may be popular because they are merely meaningful, or merely because they come from like minded posters. Accuracy is quite often irrelevant.
Ideally, religion acts as a catalyst for people to work together for mutual benefit. Unfortunately however, it can also work as a catalyst for group selfishness. So how can we tell if the promise is met or the promise is false? Selfishness is expressed in many ways.
This is in danger of off-shooting to the point where the OP's concerns become irrelevant.
Please begin a new thread.
Thanks.
That kinda follows what Trungpa taught. I remember reading a teaching where he said, (and I paraphrase) that when things start to get boring is when things start to happen in your practice.
I don't think that approaching the Path with a mind towards progress is such a good ideas. Better, I think, to practice for the practice, not to become something. There will be progress. It's hard not to see or look for it, but it's still an effect that has a cause and so, impermanent.
Better to simply practice.
They do say that the best way to 'walk the path' is to simply keep putting one foot in front of the other.... And at times, when our heads swim with so much confusing information, so many decisions to be made, so much to be analysed, so much to be understood, digested, processed.....it's nice to simply pause, breathe, take a good long look at the panoramic scenery, then just begin walking again..... It's all good, it's all ok. Stop flogging yourself or putting such high expectations upon yourself.
Just walk.
(The 'you' is generic, not specific).
Wanting progress is natural, and practice is simply paying attention to that. Wanting peace is natural, and practice is simply paying attention to that.
The practice of simply paying attention probably sorts everything out eventually, cuz like, if you're paying attention, you might eventually see the futility of selfishness.
Please click the insightful button below, thanks.
@yagr said:
We haz plan . . .
. . . is hugging meditation available yet?
Too many prickly dharma centre attendees with personal space issues?
Hug a monk day anyone?
. . . and now back to authentic, formal, best practice. Are you sitting comfortably?
Engage!
This is what we call Freudian click.
Now that's funny!
Given my experience on here as opposed to other forums I have recently interacted with, I would strongly confirm that most people get away with a lot more on here than other forums. Face-to-face, I think some of us would find out the truth as opposed to what we think we can/should get away with.
Back to the OP question though:
I would suggest reading as much as you can on the posts here, asking as many questions as you need to, and, later on, choose your battles wisely.
In metta,
Raven
Buddhism is nothing more than a path. And that path may wend itself through deserts, war zones, cities and jungles.
What is revealed at the end may not be comparable to anything that you may have been expecting, and may still go under your radar.
c'est la vie
x
What's wrong with confusion, misguidance, and missteps?
Some things will work for you, some things won't. What better way than to try and see? You'll find plenty of people with varying perspectives, and lots of experience to back them up. Some of the advice will turn out to be great, other advice near-useless. But you won't really know what works for you until you try a few different ways of doing things.
Read all you can, experiment, notice what happens, repeat.