Interbeing and the cessation of suffering

lobster

@Nevermind said:
I think it's impossible to ignore the suffering of others burning and saving yourself.

It is impossible to avoid dukkha whilst in physical incarnation, apart from mythical dharma uber men (Buddhas) who are so perfect even Chuck Norris looks lame . . .

Now reality and actual experience.

There are people I have known who are saved or enlightened and did not engage in saving others.

My teacher was engaged in saving others but not in a way that was recognizable or overt. How does this occur - well it is complicated but suffice to say, transmission occurs by tone not notes.

To put it another way, we in the world are both a thread and a tapestry . . .

Nevermind

Your Master has ceased to suffer, Mr. Lobster?

Checking back on this I notice that I overlooked you using the past tense when referring to your master. I hope you realize I wasn't being insensitive to your loss, if he has past. I know enlightened beings don't grow old, get sick, or die, but you know, I'm sorry for your loss, if it's a loss. Is it a loss?

misecmisc1

if we can remove defilements from our mind, then we can end suffering for ourselves and also save other people from getting hurt due to us, in a way lessening the suffering of others due to us - if we do not remove defilements from our mind, then we cannot help others effectively to reduce their suffering completely and not increase our suffering - so the better approach seems to be to first end suffering for ourselves and then try to help others to end their suffering.

wangchuey

From ignorance as requisite condition comes fabrication (sankhara). The less defilement we have the less we will fabricate.

"I exhort you, monks: All fabrications are subject to decay. Bring about completion by being heedful." Those were the Tathagata's last words. SN 6.15

pegembara

Interbeing is just the law of cause and effect (idappaccayata). Things come to be due to prior cause and effect and cease when the conditions change.

No rain , no sun/earth, no woodcutter ------> no paper etc.

When in the middle, there is the realisation that everything is just changing, flowing, according to the law of idappaccayata (this being, that becomes; this being, that becomes; this being, that becomes . . . ); it is the eternal process of cause and effect, an effect being the further cause of other effects. This is what is going on in the middle. We can also see this as the process of Dependent Origination (paticcasamuppada). This is the law of nature.

When this is understood fully, there is no distinction between’this’ and something else. Everything is just ‘this’. There is no division and separation of self and others, of me and them, of us and they. These distinctions no longer have any validity because everything is seen as the law of idappaccayata (this is, this becomes; this is, this becomes; this is, this becomes).

In order to see how this attachment to opposites arises, just look at time. Now, we divide time into day and night, and then we see day and night as opposite things. This is just our own stupidity in not seeing things as they really are. We think that day and night are completely different things, but it is merely the change of this thing we call time; it is just change according to idappaccayata (this is, this becomes); that’s all. In what we call day, there are these changes where there happens to be more sunlight, and then these changes continue and there happens to be more moonlight. But in this process of change, there is no real thing that we can attach to as day or as night. It’s only our misunderstanding which causes us to fall into this deception.

http://buddhismnow.com/2013/01/22/middle-way-buddhadasa-bhikkhu/

lobster

@Nevermind said:

I hope you realize I wasn't being insensitive to your loss, if he has past. I know enlightened beings don't grow old, get sick, or die, but you know, I'm sorry for your loss, if it's a loss. Is it a loss?

Many thanks for your kind words. I notice your moniker, given by others labelling is 'bitter and hateful'. Tsk, tsk so kind to label yourself by others estimation . . .

The answer to your questions is LOL

Samsara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_from_laughter

Nirvana
http://anthonygoh.com/?p=500

. . . and now back to the lost and found

Nevermind

I think I feel a kumbaya moment coming on. Yes, defiantly... everybody sing it!

federica

'defiantly'....?

Nevermind

@federica said:
'defiantly'....?

Defiantly - in a rebellious manner; "he rejected her words rebelliously"

federica

Are you sure you didn't mean 'definitely' or are you just covering your embarrassment?

It doesn't matter. I know the (real) answer....

Nevermind

@federica said:
Are you sure you didn't mean 'definitely'

I'm defiantly sure.

anataman

OK

I am going to tell you @Nevermind that you can exist in a state of not-suffering.

I am existing in it now.

B;less u

federica

Kindly take note of my second post in this thread, @anataman.
permit me to quote it for you:

Please stick entirely to topic and try to leave personal opinion of members to one side. No sniping, bitching or underhand, snide comments.

Go for it. (Watching attentively).

Thanks.

anataman

B;less you @‌federica

If only I had a guardian angel like you (;) when I was growing up and forming opinions for my self...

Or allowing constrained opinions to escape into the ethernet; like these... b(l)oom.

Stop IT...lol

Oh I forgot to mention; I was on holiday in a muslim country - and they allowed me to meditate without control...

Anyway, back to useless English comms.

And buddhist constraints:

anataman

I apologise for those who may find the above image difficult to deal with!

But this is life.

Kundo

deleted - posted before I read the entire thread. It's already been said.

anataman

If you view suffering on a personal level, then it is inescapable if we all see our self as involved in it...

However, take a step back, breathe, breathe again and see the knowledge of the illusion of self as fundamental to freedom from the suffering that self brings, and et voila: we are free from @Nevermind's view.

And once upon a time...

Nevermind

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya,

O Lord, kum bay ya.

anataman

No I believe you are missing the point @Nevermind, or making mockery of the users of this site as usual.

I don't think anyone here is asking for god to end their suffering.

Nevermind

We're ALL suffering, my Lord, kum bay ya;

We're ALL suffering, my Lord, kum bay ya;

We're ALL suffering, my Lord, kum bay ya,

O Lord, kum bay ya.