Non dual
Earthninja
WandererWest Australia Veteran
Hi guys!
I'm really new to Buddhism so I would love to hear about your opinions/experiences!
Today while meditating I was listening to the birds chirping. I then let go of the idea of birds and suddenly all I could hear was chirping sounds neither outside or inside me. Just chirping in "space" no distance no birds. Weird experience.
I then walked outside and looked around my back yard and felt as if I was in a dream - by dream I mean everything I could see and hear was on this same space. Like I was a movie?? I tried feeling the same way but the ground tends to feel separate from me.
Then I went to work and experience over. I feel that when I meditate again this experience will arise again. Particularly with sounds and sights.
Is this what they mean by non duality? It's not a waking reality for me yet. Or is this a mental formation?
That's so much guys
Comments
Well I don't know you...
It might be a non dual state.
If so it is not it that arises.
It is always already the case...
It is you that arises..
Don't expect any repetition in experiences. They will never be the same, even if similar.... Meditation isn't about having specific experiences. It's about seeing them, and letting them go...
I guess it's different for everybody, I do understand intellectually. I find it very hard to put into words.
@federica although I'm wondering if it's me seeing a part of reality for what it is? In which case I probably should let go regardless! Thanks, I'll try not expect anything.
From a zen perspective, appears to be yes. Temporary "hishiryo", at least.
(hishiryo): This is no-thought (munen; wu-nien) or no-mind (mushin; wu-hsin) and can be described as "Consciousness no longer an intentional vector proceeding from a subject to an object but is, rather, an open dynamic field in which objects present themselves. (1) No subject-object distinction: The subject has disappeared—this being the Zen interpretation of Buddhist anatta or no-mind. (2) Immediacy: Without a subject standing back, the experience is one of immediacy within the dynamic field of consciousness. (3) Fullness: Because the object is not filtered through an intentional act, it presents itself in its fullness. (4) Such immediacy and fullness are genjokoan, "pure presence of things as they are."
But after it was over, you then came out of "hishiryo" back into "shiryo" which can be described as: our habitual tendency to stay in the mode of conceptualizing thought.
Then, picking back up the "experience of birds" and "weird" and "I feel that when I meditate again this experience will arise again", and "I tried feeling the same way but the ground tends to feel separate from me."...all that is just "mental formation".
From a zen perspective, the only thing that is not "mental formation" is "chirp, chirp" and that's it. Even an idea of "non-duality" is mental formation.
Although, to cling to "experiences" is considered a huge mistake and nothing more than just more delusive mental formations.
Could you define 'a part of reality' for me?
@seeker242
Thank you for writing all that, helps greatly.
The hardest thing for me is understand to not try do anything, to just be. If you try attain enlightenment your trying. To try not attain enlightenment your still trying to do something!
Haha I do like Zen, thanks again guys! This community is great
Chirp!
Hmm I see what I did there, part meaning through one of the sense organs(brain/ears) but not the others if that makes sense? Feeling/experiencing sounds with no labels but not feeling physically the ground or taste with no labels.
The ground felt separate from "me" the sound just was sound
"Achieving clear mind is easy. Keeping clear mind in every situation is very difficult." Master Seung Sahn
Yes, in meditation you will begin to glimpse clear mind. But then our monkey minds tell us "Wow! That's great. What does that mean?" and the moment is gone. Don't sweat it. Like our thoughts, let clear mind come and go without comment. When looking at the sky, only clouds. When looking at the forest, only trees.
The world is just like this.
Hope this helps.
I often use the cheep cheep cheep of birds to help me meditate, particularly when walking in the park. That little cheep cheep cheep is code for 'your alive' 'you're alive again' 'you're still alive'.
Cheep Cheep Cheep is just a way of getting it across without using words with meanings that will distract me.
I like the dreamy state - I look at mums pushing buggies and talking baby babble and feeding ducks and generally living there lives, with no concerns other than giving their babes attention and the ducks food.
Cheep Cheep Cheep
You have perceived the interconnection of all beings.
When I meditate, I feel that my breathing, the distant roar of passing cars, the chirp of the birds make one big conumdrum. I don't question it, I don't ponder over it, I don't attach to the experience. It's back to breathing in, breathing out every time.
I acknowledge it and let it go. It's pure bliss.
All the Buddhist theory adds up in that meditation session. Whatever you may read, it does not gain in perspective until you sit down mindfully on your cushion and see.
Even better if you can extend that mindfulness into your everyday life: being able to perceive that same interconnection when your colleague at work backbites, when your child pulls you a tantrum, when the car acts up...
That's why it is so important to practice Buddhism, not just absorb the theory intellectually.
And though, like @federica said, don't expect any repetition in the experience, your perception will definitely open up with the consistence in your practice.
I think you need a teacher to help understand what is happening. Hopefully an accomplished meditation teacher.
Trungpa Rinpoche in Training the MInd (page 18).
Where I live there is no sangha that I am aware of, I am attending a Vipassana retreat in July. Hopefully I can meet a teacher there.
Thanks again guys, all your replies have answered a lot.
When your eyes see a form, just see.
When your ears hear a sound, just hear.
When your nose smells a smell, just smell.
When your tongue tastes a taste, just taste.
When your body feels a touch, just feel.
When your mind knows a thought, just know.
Just forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touch and thoughts appearing from nowhere and disappearing to nowhere.
Kia Ora,
Everything is Buddha Nature....nothing special
Metta Shoshin
"I then let go of the idea of birds and suddenly all I could hear was chirping sounds neither outside or inside me."
This is good, but it is more important to realize that there never was a hearer behind sound, hearing is always only just sound.
When a Zen master got enlightened by the sound of a bell being struck, he remarked, there is no hearer nor the bell being sounded, only the ringing.
After this realization, this direct gapless mode of perception becomes natural and effortless.
yes, ok... little steps, one at a time....
How exciting.
:clap: . . .
A good way to prepare is by watching youtube advice.
Talking to cushions. . . eh scratch that . . . stick to listening to the little birdees . . .online courses http://www.vipassana.co.uk/course/reading and even asking the advice of your fellow cushion squashers . . .
Nothing is the same as real contact. Bravo. Every success. :clap: . . .
Where do you live @Earthninja ?
I live in a small town south of Perth in Western Australia. There are a lot of Sanghas in Perth however I am 4 hours away. We have a yoga studio and a meditation centre but not buddhist. I might start a group!
Good idea. Many teachers are happy to visit groups if you put money towards the petrol.