Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Selflessness
Theswingisyellow
Trying to be open to existenceSamsara Veteran
In Buddhism annata, selflessness, no self, not self; I would consider the crowning jewel of Buddhist thought. For other traditions is it not the same as submitting to Gods will, reunifying with God or the divine? Is it not the same principle (even if not spelled out in exactly the same terms) that when we lose sight of ourselves we open to something much greater? My position on God or the afterlife is "I don't know" but in my mediations and when I am mindful the wonder and beauty of this world becomes so readily apparent. I can read poems from Hafiz or Rumi (Love them both) and even though they reference God and the divine I cannot help feel we are feeling and speaking of the same the thing.
0
Comments
I don't really know. I've heard expressions like "Of myself I am nothing, thy Father doeth the work" but it's not exactly the same thing in my form of Zinnzen in which if I try to pin point the "self" it can not be found. . In relative aspects they both point towards the same thing. -Think of myself less....selfless...Bob
I would say that the crowning glory of Buddhism is not selflessness, but the discovery that there is no one to be selfless.
Maybe in a relative sense they allude to the same thing. I realize that Abrahamic religions don't teach a not-self doctrine, I cannot help but feel that their ideas of giving themselves over to God and selflessness share some common ground. As I remarked on Hafiz earlier, he gets it, his verse may still have God and his soul intertwined within but selflessness comes through in his writings. This is Sufism, maybe it's the mystical traditions, be they Sufism or Christian mystics, where these ideas have more in common.
Thinking out loud.
leaving aside the God question, in whichever religion he may be seen, there is much in other religious literature that is wonderfully inspirational and heart-waqrming.
One of my favourite quotations from the OT is this one (It is most beautiful when read in the King James' Bible):
"Be ye not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby have some entertained angels unawares."
it sounds absolutely awful in more modern so-called, user-friendly editions...
"Stop neglecting to show hospitality to strangers, for by showing hospitality some have had angels as their guests without being aware of it. "
"no one to be selfless." is this not the same as not-self, selflessness, annata?
Perhaps as I mentioned they may have a similar effect of thinking of one self less. That said I find religion unpalatable. Religion demands my belief. "Buddhism" says take a look and see what you find. ..or don't find...
Yes. Its the same.
@MeisterBob I totally agree with you. Religion requires faith, faith lacks certitude, there will always be uncertainty. With Buddhism you know from direct experience. I will say if one's faith allows one to experience the "divine", to appreciate this life or it helps one's actions to be motivated by compassion and goodwill then that is well and fine. On the other hand thinking that one's viewpoint is the only correct one and that everyone else will burn in hell is pretty stupid and self serving, but that would be something all together different from what I originally started discussing.
If there is no 'static' self then by helping myself to abudance at the cost of others I may help the many future selves that exist in a dynamic form.
Que ?
From what I understand, it isn't that there is not a self bu thtat a static and eternal self does not exist. We are stream of conciousness. We are many. Do I have this wrong?
Mostly right. " We are many " ? I think you might be thinking of the Borgs..
A borg is existing at the same time. A grayman is born and destroyed and born with each change. The grayman of now only exists now.
The mystics of religion have cushions and are if of sufficient realisation 'empty of the presence'.
http://networkologies.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/fana-sufisms-notion-of-self-annihilation-or-why-nirvana-is-samsara-in-mahayana-buddhism/
Eventually, Allah Akbar (Cod is Greater) takes on new significance as Cod becomes greater than His own existence, non existence and Fishiness.
In the realms of Judaic Kabbala, Orthodox Jews (no women or pop stars traditionally) can not cross the realm of Daath.
Mystical Christian interpretations are available through Masonry, Gnosticism, New Age popularism and non religious priests
http://www.clergyproject.org/
“Silence is the language of God,
all else is poor translation.”
~ Rumi
I thought Selflessnes was existence unbound by the self's dream of itself.
IMO The only change I would consider in your response to the op would be to change the
"but" to an "and".