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Effortless

Do you think that the concept of effortless should be part of the practice as well as the results?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    No.
    The Eightfold Path advocates Right Effort...?

    I'm not even sure I'm understanding what your question/point is....

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Expand your effortless question a little for my sake... :) ...

  • I meant mental effort. I just think right effort should be simple and without difficulties. Encountering difficulties would suggest wrong effort. Yes there are difficulties when chopping wood and carrying water, I just dont think that struggling comes after enlightment or perhaps "right" effort as well.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    If it was 'simple and without difficulties' it wouldn't entail Effort - ! Encountering difficulties means EFFORT is required. The Buddha knew this - which is why he included it as part of the path.

    How much Effort do you need to make, do you think, to get your head round even the basic, preliminary teaching of the 4NT??

    anataman
  • Just the concept, not in the litteral sense. As in one shouldn't try too hard when meditating. Utilize the effortless concept, and easy is how it should be. As simple as facing ones fears when one has already come into terms with ones fears.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    So you mean, Right Effort as in 'balanced'... Not too loose, not too tight, like the strings of Sona's Lute?

    All things in Moderation - including Moderation...?

    Some effort is always required. Nothing can be accomplished without some effort. But it has to be 'RIGHT' effort - the effort that makes us push our boundaries, and even sometimes exit our comfort zone, but only to an extent where there is no resistance, founded on fear, or resentment of having to practise....

    Buddhadragon
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    right effort is eventually joyful, but it doesn't start out like that. Forbearance is another translation.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @namarupa said:
    Do you think that the concept of effortless should be part of the practice as well as the results?

    Yes.

    Effort should be sustainable and have an ease to it. Initially it is hard to do this . . . a bit like relaxing in yoga. Many people engage in competitive relaxation, sometimes with themselves. In other words they strain to relax. It can take years of practice before they practice . . .

    Right effort involves commitment, discipline and determination. Easy? Depends where you are . . .

    More practice, less of an effort. There is your concept, how will it apply? :om: .

    JeffreynamarupaBuddhadragon
  • @dharmamom‌

    Thank for that insight. It's got me wanting to investigate it further in my practice.

    lobsterBuddhadragonDandelion
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    I think you will - keep going, that's right effort. I think the key word in @dharmamom's post is transformation, hmm, I'll ponder that myself for a little while over a cup of Twining's Jasmine Pearls, just discovered them they are great if you are a fan of green tea... :coffee: ...

    Earthninja
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited June 2014

    Until one's practice becomes well established and internalised it takes a lot of effort to be effortless.

    Watch Lionel Messi running with the ball and ask how many hours of practice and training have gone into his ' effortless ' grace.

    BTW, If we had the option to give a double 'Insightful ' I would do so to @dharmamom's post.

    Buddhadragonlobsteranataman
  • namarupanamarupa Veteran
    edited June 2014

    @anataman‌ I enjoy tea my self. It's been a long time since I had some tea. Kind of stuck with coffee at the moment with work and everything.

    @Citta‌ Yes. As effortless as a talented musician playing a piece by memory or as a meditator sitting for hours without any hint of mental stress.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @anataman said:
    I'll ponder that myself for a little while over a cup of Twining's Jasmine Pearls, just discovered them they are great if you are a fan of green tea... :coffee: ...

    @anataman: I am a green tea junkie. I drink over a litre green tea a day. Be careful with pesticides in green tea. Stick to reliable organic brands, whenever possible...
    :wave: ..

    Earthninjaanataman
  • ZetsuZetsu Explorer

    I prefer a nice Zinger tea. Preferably with a mix of White to make a nice balance.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran

    I feel this question pertains to grace rather than right or wrong effort. Where there is grace, there is no effort. Trying to be graceful sort of smacks of effort but training to be aware and "in the zone" will one day lead to some level of graceful awareness.

    I'm guessing.

    namarupaJeffreyBuddhadragonCitta
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    I think I agree @ourself.

  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    I don't think anything comes with no effort, even not doing something on purpose is effort.
    I think we should put the right effort into our practice. There's a difference between striving to do something and effort.
    Effort is sitting and mindfully breathing. Striving is trying to attain something.

    Jeffrey
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