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Effortless
namarupa
Veteran
Do you think that the concept of effortless should be part of the practice as well as the results?
0
Comments
No.
The Eightfold Path advocates Right Effort...?
I'm not even sure I'm understanding what your question/point is....
Expand your effortless question a little for my sake...
...
I meant mental effort. I just think right effort should be simple and without difficulties. Encountering difficulties would suggest wrong effort. Yes there are difficulties when chopping wood and carrying water, I just dont think that struggling comes after enlightment or perhaps "right" effort as well.
If it was 'simple and without difficulties' it wouldn't entail Effort - ! Encountering difficulties means EFFORT is required. The Buddha knew this - which is why he included it as part of the path.
How much Effort do you need to make, do you think, to get your head round even the basic, preliminary teaching of the 4NT??
Just the concept, not in the litteral sense. As in one shouldn't try too hard when meditating. Utilize the effortless concept, and easy is how it should be. As simple as facing ones fears when one has already come into terms with ones fears.
So you mean, Right Effort as in 'balanced'... Not too loose, not too tight, like the strings of Sona's Lute?
All things in Moderation - including Moderation...?
Some effort is always required. Nothing can be accomplished without some effort. But it has to be 'RIGHT' effort - the effort that makes us push our boundaries, and even sometimes exit our comfort zone, but only to an extent where there is no resistance, founded on fear, or resentment of having to practise....
right effort is eventually joyful, but it doesn't start out like that. Forbearance is another translation.
Yes.
Effort should be sustainable and have an ease to it. Initially it is hard to do this . . . a bit like relaxing in yoga. Many people engage in competitive relaxation, sometimes with themselves. In other words they strain to relax. It can take years of practice before they practice . . .
Right effort involves commitment, discipline and determination. Easy? Depends where you are . . .
More practice, less of an effort. There is your concept, how will it apply? :om: .
"The reason why effort is so crucial is that each person has to work out his or her own deliverance.
The Buddha does what he can by pointing out the path to liberation; the rest involves putting the path into practice, a task that demands energy.
This energy is to be applied to the cultivation of the mind, which forms the focus of the entire path.
The starting point is the defiled mind, afflicted and deluded; the goal is the liberated mind, purified and illuminated by wisdom.
What comes in between is the unremitting effort to transform the defiled mind into the liberated mind."
(Bikkhu Bodhi)
So right effort would be, according to Bikkhu Bodhi, the relentless, consistent energy that you apply into your practice, not the amount of "straining."
Your practice must be consistent but feel effortless and uncontrived.
You persist but you don't strive.
@dharmamom
Thank for that insight. It's got me wanting to investigate it further in my practice.
I think you will - keep going, that's right effort. I think the key word in @dharmamom's post is transformation, hmm, I'll ponder that myself for a little while over a cup of Twining's Jasmine Pearls, just discovered them they are great if you are a fan of green tea... :coffee: ...
Until one's practice becomes well established and internalised it takes a lot of effort to be effortless.
Watch Lionel Messi running with the ball and ask how many hours of practice and training have gone into his ' effortless ' grace.
BTW, If we had the option to give a double 'Insightful ' I would do so to @dharmamom's post.
@anataman I enjoy tea my self. It's been a long time since I had some tea. Kind of stuck with coffee at the moment with work and everything.
@Citta Yes. As effortless as a talented musician playing a piece by memory or as a meditator sitting for hours without any hint of mental stress.
@anataman: I am a green tea junkie. I drink over a litre green tea a day. Be careful with pesticides in green tea. Stick to reliable organic brands, whenever possible...
:wave: ..
I prefer a nice Zinger tea. Preferably with a mix of White to make a nice balance.
I feel this question pertains to grace rather than right or wrong effort. Where there is grace, there is no effort. Trying to be graceful sort of smacks of effort but training to be aware and "in the zone" will one day lead to some level of graceful awareness.
I'm guessing.
I think I agree @ourself.
I don't think anything comes with no effort, even not doing something on purpose is effort.
I think we should put the right effort into our practice. There's a difference between striving to do something and effort.
Effort is sitting and mindfully breathing. Striving is trying to attain something.