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Artilcles of Grievances I: Race
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Becuase there is not much action on the boards except for debating about Limbo and the Pope.
That is how any rational debate discussion works. I make a point and attempt to prove it through some type of persuasion.
That is bad why? Of course, if I make an arguement, I put forth a point in the belief that I am RIGHT. Just as you responded to my post disapprovingly. And I can naturally assume that you believe you are right, no?
Why? Because if I just cover my ears and sing, then I can convince myself that there are no problems worthy of my attention. I live in a world of real problems where I feel that we should be able to freely discuss those problems.
I don't see how that is pertitent to the discussion of race at hand. Unless of course you are saying that we should NOT identify with our race. To which I would agree with you.
Yes. Ignore real world problems and imagine that everything is good. I think I'll pass. I think if I can confront the world problems and still be happy, I have achieved something great.
Pray tell give me a topic of discussion that you wouldn't consider mind garbage. Fluffy Bunnies? Perhaps our favorite tea recipe? My home gardening techniques? I placed this thread under the category of America because obviously I live there. And the title of my thread was called "Articles of Grievances". I am not exactly sure what you expected to read when coming here. But obviously I have left you disappointed.
This thread has remained an intellectual stalemate and no one has seemed to change their minds yet. Again, another purpose of rational dialogue is to critique and persuade.
Yes, but you seem to be discouraging discussion of the topic all together and thereby disabling anyone from changing their minds.
Now you are just ignoring the discussion all together. I stopped debating the issue several months ago when I began to perceive that very thing happening in this thread. I re-read the entire thread and realized that there were points I had left unanswered. So, to finish my rebuttal to you, I will leave you with a bit of my own poetry.
May silence be your shield against trouble
And your eyes closed to all confrontation
Ignore the world, its problems will double
Gilded thought, intellectual desecration
Everyone,
Please take the time to consider Brian's Announcements in Forum, especially the request to please keep your words and thoughts respectful and polite while you are visiting this forum. While certain discussions will inevitably become emotional, there is a limit to the type of behavior that will be allowed. As much as I abhor censorship, if the topic continues to degrade into abusive speech, the offending posts will be removed and/or the thread will be closed.
Sincerely,
Leto II
Yes.
Someone whose comments I found very self-contradictory.
I am mad at no one. But I did found your attitude and stance quite paradoxical in nature.
I did not realize I had an ally in this discussion.
I didn't expect to gain anything actually. Nor do I really expect to much longer.
I am frustrated with your inability to recognize the faults in your arguements where it remains completely justifiable to make such blanket statements about an entire race, myself, and my ancestors (who have had nothing to do with slavery or racism in this country). And yet, at the same time, it is appalling to you that I have the audacity to suggest that race should not have any effect on the legal system.
Nice. My point exactly. It is okay for you to use my own skin pigmentation against me and to make blanket statements about myself and my family, but who am I to gripe about society, right?
I am the first generation of my family in America since my 1912 immigrant ancestors to be born above the poverty line. I am not rich. But just because I am white, I am automatically elite, arrogant, rich, and whatever other stereotypes you have labeled me with.
And following that....
That was a simple parody of your post. I simply exchanged a few words while still playing off the today's modern stereotypes of both races.
That was my response to that post indeed. You know nothing about me and yet you make a presumptious statement about elitism, economics, and social standing of me. For your information, my life has been endangered before for the very reason that I was white. You babble on that which you know nothing about. Don't you find it a bit racist of yourself to be using such blatant stereotypes against people like that?
KOB, that will be the last rise you'll get out of me and this, the last response. See ya!
You chose to bump this thread at an interesting moment in the history of racism in the US. I am sure that what you say about your peers is true and that you are entirely accepting of all differences. This is not, however, true throughout your nation. Racist taunts appear to have been part of the atmosphere at Virginia Tech and I have seen no indication that staff intervened in the 'teasing' of Cho Seung-Hui. It would be simplistic to suggest that this form of bullying explains or exculpates but it is contributory.
Whilst you may not have encountered racial discrimination against non-whites, you must be aware that 'racial profiling' is used in the identification of potential terrorists. Nor can you ignore the fact that, elsewhere in the world, people are killing each other because they are of a different 'race' (according to their percepotion) - Darfur and Rwanda give example.
It would seem that ill-educated humans tend to persecute those who are different from themselves, particularly where the colour of their skin is concerned. In the same way as we teach children to behave socially, we have a duty to confront and extirpate this irrational prejudice. That your own community has managed to do so is laudable - and unusual.
That is the wider context but you appear to take personally the fact that racist slaughter, happening elsewhere, has an effect even within your utopian context. And it seems to produce angry written words, whatever your actual feelings.
As this is a Buddhist board, it might be useful to consider anger and angry speech. The Buddha and many other writers have a lot to say about the subject, as do many other writers in many other traditions. Even if we set these comments aside, you might like to consider that you have been unable to convince your respondents. The notion of "hate crimes" is, indeed, a tricky one and a calm atmosphere for debate would be more likely to arrive at a clearer understanding of what is intended by such legislation.
You and I have often been of different minds on subjects raised here but I would be sorry to see you disappear from these boards. Why not try an experiment? Try outlining your opinions calmly. Write your posts and post them only a few hours later after re-reading them. Consider how you want your words to be read: do you want to learn, teach, convince, amuse? Do you want to wind people up? Be aware of your audience. I believe that you will become an even better communicator.
Anger will not serve you well, but the energy of anger, transformed by loving-kindness, will empower you. Why not try it?
Good for All are The 4 Kinds of Right Verbal Action!
The Blessed Buddha once said:
How, Cunda, is purity of verbal action fourfold?
1:
Herein, one avoids lying, abstains from false. He speaks the truth,
is devoted to the truth, reliable, trustable, never deceiving anyone.
Being at a meeting, among family, in society, or in the court called
upon and asked as witness to tell what he knows, he answers, if he
knows nothing: I know nothing; & if he knows, he answers: I know!
If he has seen nothing, he answers: I have seen nothing & if he has
seen something, he answers: I have seen this and that. Thus he never
deliberately speaks a lie, neither for his own advantage, nor for the
advantage of others, nor for the sake of any trivial gain whatsoever.
2:
He avoids divisive speech, spreading rumours, tale bearing, & gossip.
What he has heard here, he does not repeat there wishing to cause
dissension there by splitting those united. What he has heard there,
he does not tell here so to cause conflict by splitting friends here..
Rather he unites those who are divided; and those who are united
he encourages. Harmony, peace, agreement & concord gladdens him.
He delights and rejoices in Harmony. He spreads & grows Harmony!
3:
He avoids harsh & aggressive language, he abstains from all scolding.
He speaks such words that are gentle, soothing to the ear, pleasing,
heart-touching, polite, dear, considerate, interesting & agreeable..
4:
He avoids vain talk, empty & small talk, void speech and idle prattle!
He abstains from all babble, chitchat, tittle-tattle and evil hearsay.
He speaks at the right time, in accordance with facts, speaks what
is useful, speaks about the Dhamma and the Discipline; his speech is
like a precious treasure, well timed, always reasoned by arguments,
moderated, well formulated & full of sound reason & common sense.
In this -for all- very good way, is purity of verbal action fourfold!
Source (edited extract):
Numerical Discourses of the Buddha. Anguttara Nikaya AN 10:176
http://what-buddha-said.net/Canon/Sutta/AN/Index.Numerical.htm