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For those who are interested in the old atheism in America discussion...
vinlyn
Colorado...for now Veteran
...this is an article from "Politico" that asks the question why there aren't more American atheists.
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I'm going to read it, but I think it's funny right off the bat. The numbers are actually growing, so soon they'll be asking "Why are there so many American atheists?".
haha
After reading it, all I can think is it's hard to break with tradition, especially if that tradition leads you to disbelieve in scientific knowledge (such as evolution, which 40% of Americans don't believe in). It'll take time for there to be a lot of "out" atheists. Doesn't really bother me how many there are, so long as we're all on the same page about separation of chuch and state... that's something to fight for.
Interesting article. Atheists (at the time this was written, and to some degree still) aren't regarded with positive regard, that's for sure. The 'new' atheists have done well to bring a normal everyday human 'face' to atheism.
Mentioning you are an atheist is still enough for you to get a two second longer stare, but not so with my children's generation. My daughter in law is practically incontinent about her atheism, and I silently cheer her on. It's quite like the growing acceptance same sex relationships and marriage, or transgendered people. Funny how atheists were kind of lumped in there, but I think they were.
I think the States is a fair way behind other Western countries with regard to this.
In Australia if you openly state you are anything BUT an athiest you get the two second stare you mentioned.....
Kia Ora,
If Atheist means without [a] god
.. just curious ....
does American mean without merriment ? .
Metta Shoshin .
..
I agree with you, and, for some people, it's a major problem here.
I'm an atheist in the states. I have lived in the deep south as well as the midwest and northwest. I've never once had a problem with being non-religious even while working with and befriending so many devout people.
@Frozen_Paratrooper I've never had a problem personally either, though if I had kids I'd be tackling this "under God" nonsense in the Pledge.
I support organizations that work toward keeping church and state separate (which includes Christian orgs; there are good reasons for people of all religions to want this). Other than that, people can believe what they want!
There are only really a couple of things that I find ridiculous and plainly, plainly, in direct contradiction of the Constitution:
Both changes are divisive in nature, making non-Christians seem less American (or un-American), and lending credence to the "Christian Nation" notion, which empowers right-wing fundamentalists who are always attempting to change government policy by infusing it with Christian ideologies. They were desperate and fierce statements of unity against "Godless Communism" in a time of war, but today they're only statements of division in a pluralistic society with a secular government.
The article that @vinlyn brought up in this thread is fairly spot-on in its assessment of "new atheism" arising as a pushback against religious fundamentalism and its effects on the rights of American citizens. That's not entirely accurate, because atheism is itself a statement of belief/unbelief, but it's certainly a motivating force in "the uproar" and lawsuits.
In September our HOA will have their annual meeting. I won't go because the HOA president will lead a long prayer. I think it's inappropriate because there may be people at the meeting who are Buddhist or Jewish or atheist. But, I'm just one voice, and other people I've chatted with about it think it's each good, or are neutral. Of course, that may be part of living in Colorado Springs -- a city with an inordinate number of churches (a historical factor involved in that).
From the inestimable BBC....
People in America would rather have a gay President, or welcome a rapist, than accept someone who is atheist.
Actually, many would probably see a gay President or a rapist as an atheist.
Well, if you read the article, it makes that distinction.
"For myself, as for many people, it's only in the light of such current controversies with regard to belief that I've found myself willing to explicitly articulate my disbelief." (documentary host)
A History of Disbelief, Part(s): 1, 2, 3
Watching this now. It says "BBC Four" and the guy is British. Pretty good so far!
I honestly believe this is a rearguard battle; even in the USA and even in Iran (for example).
Religious doctrines have become hollow and meaningless. The whole concept of divine revelation, captured in Holy Scriptures, has become absurd in a world that is dominated by technological advancement and scientific progress.
The problem in the U.S. being that a large segment of the population now wants to turn away from science.
It's interesting, because a lot of people who will say they do not align with a church or set of beliefs, will still tell you they believe Noah's Ark (or whatever) is real. So even if they give up the formality of the religion they were raised in, because they don't bother to learn anything else, they hold onto those stories because they need something to hold onto. It's sad to me how much of that clinging to beliefs that they aren't even part of is due to fear. The "don't you teach my kids science...or yoga!" is based on fear as well. I wouldn't want to live that way, wanting the entire world to keep my kid in a bubble based on my beliefs because the thought they might learn something contrary is so terrifying.
I agree, Karasti. Long ago, when I was still an earth science teacher, part of the approved curriculum was evolution. And at the end of unit I would give them a pretty typical high school test. One year I decided to do something different. At the end of the unit they had to write essay, and they had a choice of two -- "Why I believe in evolution" OR "Why I don't believe in evolution. Frankly I accepted pretty much any response, but I got some very well written responses on both sides...and some dumb ones, but if it was an essay, then they passed.
That was the year I had several serious complaints by parents about evolution. And 3 different parents literally said, "I don't my kid to think!"
Those Facebook tests keep telling me I am not from my own country, and do not live in the right place, am 100% open minded, and 38% bitchy. There is a growing minority of United Statesians covering our eyes and whistling and pretending we don't know those people. It really depends upon where you are. In the big cities there are huge 'liberal zones' where all the LGBTQ live and thrive with their typically conventional brethren, having escaped the gun-toting Jesus freak Tea Party homeschooling Quiverfull neo-conservative hinterlands, especially if there is a university.
My city is small for being a state capital, has a deeply left wing university, and thus a colorful 'liberal zone'; but it lies within a larger, much older and well established conservative (even for Washington state) faction. You see gasping and indignant grannies side by side with boy/girls smooching with girl/boys with a fat doobie in their pocket in any local cafe.
We are alive and well, and thanks to the neo-conservatives having their asses exposed in the Bush administration, are more visible and vocal every day.
Is everyone as loving and as accepting as you in "liberal zones?"
I've had the pleasure of living all over the states. My favorite place to live was in southern Georgia. Was nothing like the stereotype I had envisioned, being the Yankee I am.
Never once stepped foot in a church or said a prayer living down there, and the gentle locals never had an unkind word to say about it.
I am philosophically opposed to having God on money or in the pledge, but I don't feel myself a subject of some theocracy because of that. I've met people from REAL theocracies, and believe me, the deep south is a secular paradise by comparison.
Not sure I get you @Frozen_Paratrooper.
You just seem to possess a deep disdain for about half of your fellow countrymen. I'm admittedly to the right on most matters of politics excluding religion, but I never understand where the mania and hate comes from about people with opposing values.
Thanks @Frozen_Paratrooper. I don't FEEL a deep disdain, it's more humorous than that, more sympathetic than that. My post was deliberately 'clever' for what that's worth. I wouldn't treat a Tea Party nutjob any differently than I would someone who's political views I was more in agreement with -- cuz I sort of see through both of them, theirs and mine, and don't REALLY believe I'm right and they are wrong. I do think we are all missing the point, but are doing the best we can for now.
Where the rubber hits the road I respect every human being I meet, even if they are shrieking in my face and insulting me. "Respect" in that I do not return their nasty words with my own. Discussing people in groups is a different story -- and can go dangerously wrong, as you point out. I trust myself to not go on pogroms and round up homophobes for execution. I DO find their ideologies insane and damaging. But the persons spewing the hatred? They are just people. They ought to have their mouth taped shut or be ignored, but not 'disdained'. They aren't any different than I am at the human level. They just do and say stupid things in my opinion.
I don't refer to people who disagree with homosexuality as homophobes. Nor do I find the ideologies of those I don't agree with insane. I'm not exactly the poster boy for peace and love but to speak even in just of rounding up scares the soup cans out of me.