Tanha vs. Lobha
followthepath
Explorer
Hello everyone. I was hoping that someone could help me understand the difference between tanha and lobha. I believe the former is typically defined as craving and the latter is greed. The definitions seem the same to me. However, I don't see how they could be the same because tanha is considered to be the primary cause of dukkha (suffering) and lobha is one of the three poisons.
It's very important to me that I get a grip on what lobha is because I won't be able to behave skillfully if I don't. I know that any action that stems from greed, delusion, or aversion is unskillful. How can I avoid unskillful actions if I don't fully understand what greed is?
Bhikku Bodhi defined lobha as "self-centered desire". If I want to get good grades in school is that lobha? If I want to lose weight so I can be healthier and look better is that also lobha?
Please help me.
Comments
I think tanha ( craving ) includes both lobha ( greed ) and dosa ( aversion ).
To understand these words you will have to see in what context they are used. Hopefully they will not turn out to be dubious. If I may try?
lobha, dosa and moha are as you say the three roots to unskillfull action.
Tanha is desire for sensual pleasure. It is one of the links in the DO.
Chanda is the opposite to Tanha. (in most cases). It is the desire to awaken. It is the last desire to be abandoned on the path.
Now tanha and lobha can be at work at the same time but in case 1. above you will feel tanha for the feeling of being ahead of others or for the things you can get by having good grades rather than feeling good about having good grades.
Hope I made some sense?
/Victor
Tanha and lobha are often used interchangeably, but tanha is broader than lobha.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanha
I think dosa is really the flip side of the lobha coin, ie frustrated greed. So if somebody stops you getting what you really want, good grades or ice-cream, then you will feel anger towards that person. So the anger ( dosa ) results from the greed ( lobha ) being frustrated.
But it's all tanha.
Tanha is broader. But I feel that lobha is a more active form? Desire can be passive while there is always intent in greed?
Interesting take on dosa. It feels right. I will try to think of a counter example if I can.
Tanha is literally "thirst", which doesn't sound passive.
In the lab of my silent mind
I often so pleasingly find
That when properly watched
all words meanings are lost
And can be safely left behind
Tanha(desire) is the cause of lobha(greed) and dosa(aversion). When you see something you like, the desire to possess it arises. When it is something that you dislike, the desire to get rid of it arises.
The Buddha identified three types of taṇhā:
Kama-tanha (sense-craving): craving for sense objects which provide pleasant feeling, or craving for sensory pleasures.
Bhava-tanha (craving to be/for existence): craving to be something, to unite with an experience. This includes craving to be solid and ongoing, to be a being that has a past and a future, and craving to prevail and dominate over others.
Vibhava-tanha (craving not to be/for non existence): craving to not experience the world, and to be nothing; a wish to be separated from painful feelings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taṇhā#Types
In a way it is. Why do you want good grades and why do you want to look good? That is kama-tanha and bhava-tanha right there.
The path is a gradual one beginning with virtue and morality. Having good grades and wanting to look good is definitely OK. The question is,"Do they guarantee permanent happiness?"
With metta
Lobha is the klesha (defilement or unwholesome tendency or propensity) that we define as "greed." Along with Dosa (Aversion, hatred) and Moha (Delusion, ignorance, as implying mental cloudness), as you rightly said, @followthepath, they make up what is usually called "the three poisons."
Tanha translates as craving or attachment, which is far more general than simply "greed." You can bring craving or attachment into any activity in your life, while as Bikkhu Bodhi says, "greed" is "self-centered desire: the desire for pleasure and possessions, the urge to bolster the sense of ego with power, status, and prestige."
It is more related to material possessions, while craving has more to do with a spiritual or psychological void, an urge or a pulsion, like binge-eating, or dependence on stimulant, toxic substances.
As to wanting to lose weight in order to look better, or getting good grades in school, basically there is nothing wrong with both activities.
The only question here would be "Am I excessively attached to a concept of ego here, in an unskillful way, detrimental to myself and others?"
If you're ready to starve for months or kill the best pupil to excel in class, you have a problem.
If you have the goal to lose weight in order to be healthy or want to get good grades in a dettached way, that is, in a way that preserves your peace of mind independently of the results, then it's okay.
Thanks everyone. I think I understand the difference now. According to Toni Bernard, tanha is characterized by a feeling of "if only". People who have tanha feel like if they had one thing they would be happy forever. And according to a website that I found, lobha is like attachment. Lobha is being unable to let go of something.