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long breath short breath
Jeffrey
Veteran
in Meditation
I have read in some scripture that Buddha taught to notice long breaths as long and short breaths as short. Unfortunately I don't recollect where in the scripture. I think it is the Pali Canon and perhaps @Jason or @Pegembara or others may know.
My question is: how can there be long and short breaths? Surely it is relative. I could call any given breath as long or short. It is just a mental label.
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It is relative. A short breath, mine was short for years, is a sign of acute tension, a long breath of a relaxed state.
Now I tend to measure breath by the label hard and soft. The soft breath is gentle and calm and the short hard breath constrained and reflective of tension . . .
See here for example: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html
I take this instruction to mean that you are paying sufficient attention to the breath to really know what it is like at any one time. Also I think long/short is an example of what the breathing is like, there could also be deep/shallow.
As an exercise you could try deliberately making the breath long and short or deep and shallow, and see what the differences feel like.
I don't think that addresses what I said about the relativity. Regardless of how much attention I put to a particular breath it is still mental labeling to say 'long' or 'short'.
You don't have to label. It's really about noticing the quality of the breath at any one time. As I said "long" and "short" are really just examples of how the breath varies.
For me using the word quality doesn't mean anything. Long and short are relative. Of course it varies, but the designation 'long' and 'short' are just mental labels and relative to each other. One can seem one way to me of course. For example I think a basketball player is tall. But the basketball player is only tall in a relative sense to 'average' people. Thus I feel using the word 'quality' does not dodge the relativity of the breath with respect to the mental labels of long and short.
Yes, MN 118 is the most well know, although you can find it in paces like SN 54.8, as well. As for the rest, if you're having trouble with 'long' and 'short,' try 'deep' and 'shallow.' Maybe that'll help.
I take it to mean that you follow the breath without interfering or trying to control it. Sometimes it's long, or deep. Other times it's shallow, or short.
I don't think it's an instruction that needs interpreting.
If you are trying to figure it out, you have lost your attention to the breath..
Yes, they are just labels or concepts("this is short/long") to help focus on breathing for some people. That is only in the 1st 2 stages of anapanasati (breathing in/out short/long). If one can maintain focus, the long/short "disappears" and only breathing remains.
Some form of measuring ("conceit" in Pali) is involved when using terms as long/short, beautiful/ugly, rich/poor, fortunate/unfortunate comparing oneself to another etc.
Metta
Thus I feel using the word 'quality' does not dodge the relativity of the breath with respect to the mental labels of long and short.
I think you're over analysing here, Jeffrey. It's just saying that one should pay close attention to the breath.
In my experience labelling helps, or attnetion wanders off.
Long or short are relative to the 'norm' for your breathing. You gain an understanding of what the breath is like by bringing attention to it.
Other ways of describing are:
and so on . . .
Yes, there are various aids to establishing attention on the breath like counting, mantra and labelling. I think though that it's best to drop these when the mind has settled.
But there is a relative and relevant difference from when you start breathing to later on in the exercise.
In the beginning the breath is shorter and more unsettled later on, relatively speaking they are more settled and often longer.
/Victor
@Jeffrey
**
My question is: how can there be long and short breaths? Surely it is relative. I could call any given breath as long or short. It is just a mental label**.
I just saw it as the Buddha saying if the breath is long, notice that, if the breath is short, notice that.
Just another way of saying that the purpose of meditation is to simply notice what is, instead of continuing with our habituated tendencies of trying to control everything.