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@Daiva said:
mindatrisk You might be interested in the works of Gene Sharp who has been researching and writing about non-violent truffles for decades. His works have been manuals for non-violent movements - including the successful Baltic revolution. http://genesharpinstitution.com/books/waging_nonviolent_struggle/
@Nirvana said:
I see, mindatrisk, that you omit any mention of self-centeredness in your words above, although you have posted a thread on a Self-Less Economy above.
As I see it, you seem to be writing from the realm of Spirit —which is fine as far as that goes. But, unfortunately, dreams are not the stuff of which reality is made. In this world, Might Makes Right. Taking an analogy from the physical world, allow me the liberty to truncate the powers that be into three: Earth, Air, Water. (Spirit is in the Air-realm.)
Earth is Iron and Will and steadfast, reliable Power. Those who would wield it, wield it for selfish reasons and are not liable to give it up until they either choose to, are forced to, or are killed. This is the realm of Stricture and Darkness.
Water is also Power; The great universal solvent, extraordinarily bipolar, it not only gives life and conveys nourishment as does the Air, but being Dionysian it can destroy reason in the drinking of too much of its wine and its Tidal Waves and Floods. This realm, also, is not that of the Spirit. But the Spirit is often Tested and Proved through it.
Air, like Water, carries with it Potential either for Nourishment or Destruction. Its ethereal element nourishes every single cell with the saving Breath of Life, but its breath can also be that of Fire. Unfortunately, religions can use Air either for Inspiring their Inner Beings or for burning those whom they'd call Heretics in Fire. Again I say Unfortunately, because (I now Conclude:) the Selves (or souls) of people get so caught up in the Belief that they are Right, that they bring themselves to no little violence to uphold and publish their Right(s). In other words, in this political world it is true that "Might makes Right;" but in the mind of the inhabitants of the "Earth-realm," it is truer that "Perceived Right(s) condone acts of Might."
I'm not sure that I fully understand all you say here. I think my only response is that things can and do change, and that what has been does not necessarily need to continue to be, and that change occurs through new ideas and new commitment to ideas. It's not to say that change will occur quickly or easily, just that a few seeds planted now could one day take root and become a mighty oak... that might be a hundred years down the line, or a thousand, but no seed = no oak, so plant those seeds we must.
I'm curious as to your thinking, though, as it seems quite unique, but shares some aspects of astrology. What are your influences?
Gravity pulls me towards Earth.
Water doth both cleanse me and land me in the muddy ground.
And Spirit ("wind"), being Air, is my Magnet. It pulls me up into the One true Center of Everything.
Basically, @mindatrisk, I am saying that you cannot build a world system out of spice and niceness when the proclivities of its inhabitants are basically selfish. However, you can do your best to try to enlighten people actively to pray for their fellows and to cultivate goodwill. In the end all our religions and thoughts are dreams —and that's not all bad, but they cannot replace reality. In our personal lives, though, we can displace the outer realities into a lower realm of less import. Just as one can create ones own dystopia by accenting the negative in all around, one can also create ones own utopia. That is where it begins. But I cannot say where the borders of that one utopia may be found.
Real Revolution, IMO, always takes part with no small violence. I think you might be thinking of spiritual evolution, which is another thing entirely. Evolution is an opening and a flowering, whereas revolution is an upsetting of the old apple cart: Out with the old and in with the new.
Gravity pulls me towards Earth.
Water doth both cleanse me and land me in the muddy ground.
And Spirit ("wind"), being Air, is my Magnet. It pulls me up into the One true Center of Everything.
Basically, mindatrisk, I am saying that you cannot build a world system out of spice and niceness when the proclivities of its inhabitants are basically selfish. However, you can do your best to try to enlighten people actively to pray for their fellows and to cultivate goodwill. In the end all our religions and thoughts are dreams —and that's not all bad, but they cannot replace reality. In our personal lives, though, we can displace the outer realities into a lower realm of less import. Just as one can create ones own dystopia by accenting the negative in all around, one can also create ones own utopia. That is where it begins. But I cannot say where the borders of that one utopia may be found.
Real Revolution, IMO, always takes part with no small violence. I think you might be thinking of spiritual evolution, which is another thing entirely. Evolution is an opening and a flowering, whereas revolution is an upsetting of the old apple cart: Out with the old and in with the new.
I have no interest in a revolution, I just want new ideas.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2014
Révolution is precisely that. New ideas superseding the old ways. You may have a militant, forceful military impression of what revolution is, which is one way of looking at it, but what you describe would necessitate such a mentality. Not necessarily with violence or forceful intent, but it's revolution nonetheless.
@federica said:
Révolution is precisely that. New ideas superseding the old ways. You may have a militant, forceful military impression of what revolution is, which is one way of looking at it, but what you describe would necessitate such a mentality. Not necessarily with violence or forceful intent, but it's revolution nonetheless.
Yeah, maybe. I'm interested in non-violent resistance and its possibilities. I'm curious as to how effective it could be if it was given the thought and energy that military force is given. I only found out very recently that 22,000 children die everyday due to poverty, and that made me realise that difficulty is of no consequence, we simply have to do everything we can to bring change.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
"People who want to change the world, should start with a small garden."
If you want to see changes in your environment and community, the best thing to do is to address your own Actions, and implement small changes within your power and feasibility to do so.
I'm not throwing down a gauntlet or challenging you, but are there things you're already doing within your "living space" to 'make a difference'....?
@federica said:
"People who want to change the world, should start with a small garden."
If you want to see changes in your environment and community, the best thing to do is to address your own Actions, and implement small changes within your power and feasibility to do so.
I'm not throwing down a gauntlet or challenging you, but are there things you're already doing within your "living space" to 'make a difference'....?
That small garden won't feed all those children. If it were not possible then i'd focus my attentions elsewhere, but it is possible to feed those children, and to correct many of the other injustices on this planet, and I see no reason why not to at least try. I have worked hard on myself, and will continue to, and i'll continue to make sure I do the small things, moment to moment, as well as possible, but I have a big mind, a dedicated heart, and whilst such incredible issues plague other living beings the only right thing I can see to do is to help as much as I can.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
You don't get my point.
Words are noble - I commend you for your intentions - but words, spoken here... big ideas and notions of what should be done nationally/globally will ultimately, do nothing.
You cannot feed all those children. no one person, on their own, can.
So you have options: You can either join an organisation, take a year off, go to wherever those kids are, and work to make a difference at 'ground zero', or you can set up a local project of your own; a big pot of stew you put on the back of your bike, and pedal round the city to give a cupful to a homeless person, as they sit shivering on the sidewalk.
(A fellow pupil I used to go to Adult training with, did that every weekend. She was 19 at the time...).
Talk is cheap. We've chewed the cud I would say exhaustively here.
What are you going to actually DO with all this wonderful mental energy you're generating?
Federica makes a good point here. Let me tell you a true story.
One of the teachers in our school, now retired, has a son who was in the Peace Corps in Guatemala. When he was done with his stint in the Peace Corps, he still didn't feel he was "finished". When his father retired from a job totally unrelated to medicine, the son, the father, and the mother (teacher) developed a medical outreach program to Guatemala. It is similar to Doctors Without Borders, but deals specifically with Guatemala. Today they have a thriving international medical help non-profit charity that constantly sends medical missions to Guatemala.
I'm not asking you or anyone to contribute, but you can Google "Partner For Surgery" to see what they have put together in just a bit over a decade.
Individuals can bring about great change, but they have to develop the credentials to make that happen. And those credentials are earned, most often, by actually being out in the field doing the work...not just "chewing the cud".
I don't get this thread at all so will talk about revolution in another way:
I do not expect anyone to get this at all so just LAMB if you want to.
When a wheel turns it describes an arc or semi-circle. A point on the wheel which had originally been touching a certain point on a road, or path, then reaches another point that can be described as lying on a line that is parallel to, but relative, to that initial starting point.
The wheel has revolved, but has anything evolved? i.e. there has been a revolution, or one full turn of the circular wheel, but what is gained - I'll leave that for you to decide, particularly if the wheel is itself going around in a circle!
If a conscious life-form was able to come the full circle and observe every aspect of the motion, it would be able to say 'I was involved', but in reality it's really back on the path where it started, but has a different perspective.
No matter how the wheel turns, the unmoving focus is always centred on the axle. What is this axle, the centre that everything moves around and about? But where is this central axis?
I'm currently reading the book @poptart, and really enjoying it. I've really changed my opinion of Brand, he's not a complete twonk, he's human. Funny too.
It's the best book I've read in a while, and for people like me (who wouldn't read Chomsky), he's certainly opened my eyes to a few things.
He's on Question Time (a UK current events program) along with his 'spiritual and political' opponent, Nigel Farage on Thursday evening, so it should be an interesting show.
As to some of the points other's have raised, Brand doesn't claim to be anything other than a flawed human being (his words, not mine):
From his book Revolution:
There are definitely flaws in my nature and mistakes have been made, but I have observed that the more I have engaged with the transcendent, the more I have explored practices that are designed to alleviate the burden of materialism and individualism, the greater access I have to a feeling of serenity and freedom, the more I enjoy my work, the more I feel free. I think those techniques will work for anyone. I believe the techniques I have been taught to live drug-free, the methods I have used to improve my work and relationships, will work for anyone who uses them and will release anyone from any behavior or pattern that impedes happiness—not just obvious stuff like drug addiction, but less-obvious stuff like food addiction, spending addiction, or caring-too-much-what-other-people-think-of-you addiction.
Neither does he claim to be original, the proceeds of this book are all going towards a social project that helps addicts back to work, he supports numerous charities and projects, not just with money, but with his time (including helping addicts recover on a one-to-one basis).
And many of us here have a fridge full of food, yet we can still voice our opinions on helping the hungry. His book is spiritual in many places and he uses his own experience of seeking salvation through material wealth, drugs and sex as a way of explaining suffering; which will probably help his target audience (which I would guess would be quite young) understand the problem of suffering better than any monk in saffron robes could.
@Tosh said:
I'm currently reading the book poptart, and really enjoying it. I've really changed my opinion of Brand, he's not a complete twonk, he's human. Funny too.
It's the best book I've read in a while, and for people like me (who wouldn't read Chomsky), he's certainly opened my eyes to a few things.
He's on Question Time (a UK current events program) along with his 'spiritual and political' opponent, Nigel Farage on Thursday evening, so it should be an interesting show.
As to some of the points other's have raised, Brand doesn't claim to be anything other than a flawed human being (his words, not mine):
From his book Revolution:
And many of us here have a fridge full of food, yet we can still voice our opinions on helping the hungry. His book is spiritual in many places and he uses his own experience of seeking salvation through material wealth, drugs and sex as a way of explaining suffering; which will probably help his target audience (which I would guess would be quite young) understand the problem of suffering better than any monk in saffron robes could.
Bless your heart for saying so, Tosh.
And that's a great review. You should put it on Amazon.
Comments
Thank you!
I'm not sure that I fully understand all you say here. I think my only response is that things can and do change, and that what has been does not necessarily need to continue to be, and that change occurs through new ideas and new commitment to ideas. It's not to say that change will occur quickly or easily, just that a few seeds planted now could one day take root and become a mighty oak... that might be a hundred years down the line, or a thousand, but no seed = no oak, so plant those seeds we must.
I'm curious as to your thinking, though, as it seems quite unique, but shares some aspects of astrology. What are your influences?
^ My Influences?
Gravity pulls me towards Earth.
Water doth both cleanse me and land me in the muddy ground.
And Spirit ("wind"), being Air, is my Magnet. It pulls me up into the One true Center of Everything.
Basically, @mindatrisk, I am saying that you cannot build a world system out of spice and niceness when the proclivities of its inhabitants are basically selfish. However, you can do your best to try to enlighten people actively to pray for their fellows and to cultivate goodwill. In the end all our religions and thoughts are dreams —and that's not all bad, but they cannot replace reality. In our personal lives, though, we can displace the outer realities into a lower realm of less import. Just as one can create ones own dystopia by accenting the negative in all around, one can also create ones own utopia. That is where it begins. But I cannot say where the borders of that one utopia may be found.
Real Revolution, IMO, always takes part with no small violence. I think you might be thinking of spiritual evolution, which is another thing entirely. Evolution is an opening and a flowering, whereas revolution is an upsetting of the old apple cart: Out with the old and in with the new.
I have no interest in a revolution, I just want new ideas.
Révolution is precisely that. New ideas superseding the old ways. You may have a militant, forceful military impression of what revolution is, which is one way of looking at it, but what you describe would necessitate such a mentality. Not necessarily with violence or forceful intent, but it's revolution nonetheless.
Yeah, maybe. I'm interested in non-violent resistance and its possibilities. I'm curious as to how effective it could be if it was given the thought and energy that military force is given. I only found out very recently that 22,000 children die everyday due to poverty, and that made me realise that difficulty is of no consequence, we simply have to do everything we can to bring change.
"People who want to change the world, should start with a small garden."
If you want to see changes in your environment and community, the best thing to do is to address your own Actions, and implement small changes within your power and feasibility to do so.
I'm not throwing down a gauntlet or challenging you, but are there things you're already doing within your "living space" to 'make a difference'....?
That small garden won't feed all those children. If it were not possible then i'd focus my attentions elsewhere, but it is possible to feed those children, and to correct many of the other injustices on this planet, and I see no reason why not to at least try. I have worked hard on myself, and will continue to, and i'll continue to make sure I do the small things, moment to moment, as well as possible, but I have a big mind, a dedicated heart, and whilst such incredible issues plague other living beings the only right thing I can see to do is to help as much as I can.
You don't get my point.
Words are noble - I commend you for your intentions - but words, spoken here... big ideas and notions of what should be done nationally/globally will ultimately, do nothing.
You cannot feed all those children. no one person, on their own, can.
So you have options: You can either join an organisation, take a year off, go to wherever those kids are, and work to make a difference at 'ground zero', or you can set up a local project of your own; a big pot of stew you put on the back of your bike, and pedal round the city to give a cupful to a homeless person, as they sit shivering on the sidewalk.
(A fellow pupil I used to go to Adult training with, did that every weekend. She was 19 at the time...).
Talk is cheap. We've chewed the cud I would say exhaustively here.
What are you going to actually DO with all this wonderful mental energy you're generating?
Federica makes a good point here. Let me tell you a true story.
One of the teachers in our school, now retired, has a son who was in the Peace Corps in Guatemala. When he was done with his stint in the Peace Corps, he still didn't feel he was "finished". When his father retired from a job totally unrelated to medicine, the son, the father, and the mother (teacher) developed a medical outreach program to Guatemala. It is similar to Doctors Without Borders, but deals specifically with Guatemala. Today they have a thriving international medical help non-profit charity that constantly sends medical missions to Guatemala.
I'm not asking you or anyone to contribute, but you can Google "Partner For Surgery" to see what they have put together in just a bit over a decade.
Individuals can bring about great change, but they have to develop the credentials to make that happen. And those credentials are earned, most often, by actually being out in the field doing the work...not just "chewing the cud".
We do indeed start the revolution in our backyard. The Buddha started on his own, changed his mindset and passed it on.
Without such a radical interior revolution or turnaround of our being, we just perpetuate the ignorance peculiar to our little patch.
Inevitably this interior process leads to a clear understanding of ones situation, capacity and means of transmission.
Engaged Buddhism is the means of turning the interior into an external being.
I don't get this thread at all so will talk about revolution in another way:
I do not expect anyone to get this at all so just LAMB if you want to.
When a wheel turns it describes an arc or semi-circle. A point on the wheel which had originally been touching a certain point on a road, or path, then reaches another point that can be described as lying on a line that is parallel to, but relative, to that initial starting point.
The wheel has revolved, but has anything evolved? i.e. there has been a revolution, or one full turn of the circular wheel, but what is gained - I'll leave that for you to decide, particularly if the wheel is itself going around in a circle!
If a conscious life-form was able to come the full circle and observe every aspect of the motion, it would be able to say 'I was involved', but in reality it's really back on the path where it started, but has a different perspective.
What is the constant feature in all this motion. The central axis. And as Newton's first law states (well actually if you are interested: http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/alevel/mechanics_ch7.pdf)
No matter how the wheel turns, the unmoving focus is always centred on the axle. What is this axle, the centre that everything moves around and about? But where is this central axis?
Just a thought!
...\lol/...
Carry On without me!
I'm currently reading the book @poptart, and really enjoying it. I've really changed my opinion of Brand, he's not a complete twonk, he's human. Funny too.
It's the best book I've read in a while, and for people like me (who wouldn't read Chomsky), he's certainly opened my eyes to a few things.
He's on Question Time (a UK current events program) along with his 'spiritual and political' opponent, Nigel Farage on Thursday evening, so it should be an interesting show.
As to some of the points other's have raised, Brand doesn't claim to be anything other than a flawed human being (his words, not mine):
From his book Revolution:
Neither does he claim to be original, the proceeds of this book are all going towards a social project that helps addicts back to work, he supports numerous charities and projects, not just with money, but with his time (including helping addicts recover on a one-to-one basis).
And many of us here have a fridge full of food, yet we can still voice our opinions on helping the hungry. His book is spiritual in many places and he uses his own experience of seeking salvation through material wealth, drugs and sex as a way of explaining suffering; which will probably help his target audience (which I would guess would be quite young) understand the problem of suffering better than any monk in saffron robes could.
Russell Brand has his faults, but he makes me think and he makes me smile, so that's pretty good in my book.
Bless your heart for saying so, Tosh.
And that's a great review. You should put it on Amazon.