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SarahTTime ... space ... joySouth Coast, UKVeteran
I am angry about the stigma placed on those with so called mental illnesses. I have a pre-disposition to depressive illness. When over-stressed, I become immobilised. Stigma is not applied to those who have heart attacks when stressed! But because it is labelled a "mental" illness, it is treated differently - even though the results are as physical as any other illness. The stigma led the courts to make an order in my ex's favour that I should be allowed to see my children only if he allows it - even though every lawyer I have consulted told me there was no legal basis on which this order should have been made. He does not allow contact.
This anger gives me the energy to speak out about mental health, the courage to try to reduce the stigma. It's not catching. It doesn't make me a bad person.
If I didn't care enough to feel angry enough to speak out, how would this unjust situation ever be changed? If people had not cared enough to feel angry about the stigma from a diagnosis of cancer, would that have changed or would folk still be speaking fearfully about "the big C" and avoiding those with cancer?
. . . we have many people here who have been through mental illness, it runs in my family.
You can use anger as a motivating and I would suggest skilfull tool. Not always easy. My anger when expressed is not skilfull - hence I partly use meditation as an equanimity enhancing tool.
You might consider starting a thread, 'Je Suis Chrazie' or similar. We have had people here who are very ill and quite frankly some of our more vigorous debates could push some of us right off the cushion . . .
@Jeffrey hears voices, others are schizophrenic, depressed or Pastafarians (strange but true) . . . however they have as much right to respect, the ability to inspire and motivate others and to become enlightened sentients.
Just as in the posts about sexism, crazies (been on the medication, have the T-shirt) have a right to be angry about how they are labeled, mistreated, stigmatised and marginalised.
Maintenant j' ai du mal avec mon l'ecole-garcon Francais.
( Vive le cockneys! )
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
(Don't get me started on le franglais!)
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Lol, it isn't flufffy bunny dharma to transform your anger into something useful rather than express it as anger. If you must jab, make sure your point is sharp lest you become the fluffy bunny in question.
There is no skillful way to use anger unless it has been tempered by wisdom in which case it will no longer be anger.
An angry wise man/woman is a contradiction in terms.
Anger is a 'no' to something. It can be transformed into the vision that sees a way through the obstacle. Perhaps the emptiness? of the obstacle? Or perhaps a creative faculty to overcome the obstacle?
Using anger and transforming is the tantric vehicle. In the fundamental vehicle there is no wholesome anger just as there is no wholesome cancer.
@ourself said:
There is no skillful way to use anger unless it has been tempered by wisdom in which case it will no longer be anger.
An angry wise man/woman is a contradiction in terms.
Well said.
That is my experience too.
It really is about the tempering.
For example most of us may get a little annoyed at the ignorant, remember them, they are us. However being angry at the dharmically challenged, homophobe, sexist, disrespectful, murderous cartoon oppressor or [insert ignorant of choice] is unlikely to generate much more than more anger.
How do we generate the capacity or arising of wisdom? My suggestion is that dharma suggests equanimity and attention, which quite naturally develops the capacity to listen. I feel anger interferes with that potential for wisdom as you say. Many thanks.
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SarahTTime ... space ... joySouth Coast, UKVeteran
edited January 2015
Thanks all - good food for thought. Perhaps if I could develop some compassion towards myself (I have no problem feeling compassion for those who stigmatise and other sufferers of the stigma - I still remember how I felt when first hearing of a friend's mother who got sectioned [committed], before I realised how easily this could happen), that would give me a better energy to speak out with? Guess I'm trying to find compassion rather than feeling sorry for myself - not somewhere I want to go!
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Equanimity and attention, yes. We have outrages over the lack of outrages but we can call little attention to that which has escaped ours.
Some in Africa say the world doesn't care about them because we cry for Paris or Raif Badawi while Poko Harum still continues to slaughter women and children.
Everything is an outrage but outrages never seem to make much difference especially when any publicity is good publicity.
Maybe instead of saying "We are outraged", we should more often say "We have a dream..."
Comments
I am angry about the stigma placed on those with so called mental illnesses. I have a pre-disposition to depressive illness. When over-stressed, I become immobilised. Stigma is not applied to those who have heart attacks when stressed! But because it is labelled a "mental" illness, it is treated differently - even though the results are as physical as any other illness. The stigma led the courts to make an order in my ex's favour that I should be allowed to see my children only if he allows it - even though every lawyer I have consulted told me there was no legal basis on which this order should have been made. He does not allow contact.
This anger gives me the energy to speak out about mental health, the courage to try to reduce the stigma. It's not catching. It doesn't make me a bad person.
If I didn't care enough to feel angry enough to speak out, how would this unjust situation ever be changed? If people had not cared enough to feel angry about the stigma from a diagnosis of cancer, would that have changed or would folk still be speaking fearfully about "the big C" and avoiding those with cancer?
In the UK I think they are proposing time limits for mental health treatment?
^^^ well said @SarahT,
. . . we have many people here who have been through mental illness, it runs in my family.
You can use anger as a motivating and I would suggest skilfull tool. Not always easy. My anger when expressed is not skilfull - hence I partly use meditation as an equanimity enhancing tool.
You might consider starting a thread, 'Je Suis Chrazie' or similar. We have had people here who are very ill and quite frankly some of our more vigorous debates could push some of us right off the cushion . . .
@Jeffrey hears voices, others are schizophrenic, depressed or Pastafarians (strange but true) . . . however they have as much right to respect, the ability to inspire and motivate others and to become enlightened sentients.
Just as in the posts about sexism, crazies (been on the medication, have the T-shirt) have a right to be angry about how they are labeled, mistreated, stigmatised and marginalised.
Je Suis Demented [Mr Cushion agrees]
D'accord, mon petite lobsterre
Lobsterre? Langouste??
Je ne sais pas, mon ami. Mon cerveau est fatigue....
Quelle bonne chance que au moins, tu as un cerveau!!
Maintenant j' ai du mal avec mon l'ecole-garcon Francais.
( Vive le cockneys! )
(Don't get me started on le franglais!)
Lol, it isn't flufffy bunny dharma to transform your anger into something useful rather than express it as anger. If you must jab, make sure your point is sharp lest you become the fluffy bunny in question.
There is no skillful way to use anger unless it has been tempered by wisdom in which case it will no longer be anger.
An angry wise man/woman is a contradiction in terms.
Anger is a 'no' to something. It can be transformed into the vision that sees a way through the obstacle. Perhaps the emptiness? of the obstacle? Or perhaps a creative faculty to overcome the obstacle?
Using anger and transforming is the tantric vehicle. In the fundamental vehicle there is no wholesome anger just as there is no wholesome cancer.
Well said.
That is my experience too.
It really is about the tempering.
For example most of us may get a little annoyed at the ignorant, remember them, they are us. However being angry at the dharmically challenged, homophobe, sexist, disrespectful, murderous cartoon oppressor or [insert ignorant of choice] is unlikely to generate much more than more anger.
How do we generate the capacity or arising of wisdom? My suggestion is that dharma suggests equanimity and attention, which quite naturally develops the capacity to listen. I feel anger interferes with that potential for wisdom as you say. Many thanks.
Thanks all - good food for thought. Perhaps if I could develop some compassion towards myself (I have no problem feeling compassion for those who stigmatise and other sufferers of the stigma - I still remember how I felt when first hearing of a friend's mother who got sectioned [committed], before I realised how easily this could happen), that would give me a better energy to speak out with? Guess I'm trying to find compassion rather than feeling sorry for myself - not somewhere I want to go!
I think you just summed up a good and handy differentiation between having compassion for ones self and feeling sorry for ones self.
@Lobster;
No worries, my friend...
Equanimity and attention, yes. We have outrages over the lack of outrages but we can call little attention to that which has escaped ours.
Some in Africa say the world doesn't care about them because we cry for Paris or Raif Badawi while Poko Harum still continues to slaughter women and children.
Everything is an outrage but outrages never seem to make much difference especially when any publicity is good publicity.
Maybe instead of saying "We are outraged", we should more often say "We have a dream..."