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Cloning The Buddha
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
If the Buddha was cloned (say if it was possible from dna from a piece of his bone/relic) would the clone still be the Buddha ? Would his mind also develop into Buddha mind ?
Would the Buddha still be home inside the clone ?
I wonder ???
Just giving the thoughts a walk… "Form is Emptiness-Emptiness is Form"
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I think we would have to clone a dead human and see if they are the same. I do t think anybody can answer this.
Ahah! It's a koan!
I like sheep, especially Shaun the Sheep.
You've answered the koan
the self is not form... Buddha is already here.
@Shoshin, - a dolly is not a koan; but asking if you are a dolly might be.... depends who is asking?
Still "clinging" I see @anataman......
what about making a super saiyan mutant Buddha
This is actually a very good question. By answering it (one way or another, just say we COULD answer it) we would uncover a 'location' and a whole raft of cause/effect goodies in the cloned body of Siddhartha -- OR NOT.
Right thought can be cloned?
perhaps that might take practice . . .
And people just walk on by side stepping @lobster's body
How about a Buddha as a nice Terminator, helping old ladies across the road...
"Hasta la vista, granny"
On a serious note would a clone have the same mind set as its donor ?
Or would it only inherit the physical aspects ?
That's a tricky question, nature v. nurture. Is there a genetic component to personality, and is there even such a thing as personality? A clone certainly wouldn't have the donors memories.
But where are memories stored ? (experiences recorded)
In the brain's and body's complex neuropathways system ?
Or in the mind/consciousness ?
Cloning produces a physical duplicate, but unless you subject the creature to precisely the same conditions, you will not get the same psychological outcome.
We are a product of our experiences, not automatons.
That was my question, but lord help me if I can say it plain like you
Relying on genetics for hereditary temperament, there would definitely be similarities. But then there is 'epigenetics', which are genes that turn on or off depending upon the environment. (very simplified so I can understand it). The cloned Buddha would certainly have different epigenetic factors, no one lives like he did nowadays. We'd have to know who is raising him, and get very friendly with them . . .
Imagine yourself, cloned and born into an ultra-rich, highly educated family who were surprisingly mentally healthy. How different a person do you think you'd be?
We'd get modern . . . everything, impacting the clone with the same genome as the Buddha. I think it would be a total crapshoot. Seriously.
So was his awakening (the thing we're all wondering about in the backs of our heads) inevitable or determined in some way by a collusion of his inherited temperament and his environment?
That's more or less my line of thinking.
That a cloned Siddharta gets enlightened again or not will depend on what component of the personality or non-physical aggregates, such as perception, mental formation and consciousness, passes through to the new creature through the cloning process.
And even then, with all that set of skandhas securely in place, how would new outer circumstances, our different world and age, a different environment, impact on the new clone, on his world perception, on the processing of his experiences?
I can imagine we'll have to wait until a human being gets cloned to get our answer.
If we used DNA from before he left home it would be interesting if he would feel the want to leave the lab.
If we want to clone Buddha, shouldn't we just try to wake up?
@shoshin said: "Still clinging @anataman"...
that was a rather sheepish cheap cheep cheep shot!
Time to shear your thoughts some more...
With each idea,
you shut the door
on this and that and this and more
Cloning buddha; tut, yawn, what a bore!
Buddha's trod this path before
realised the revolving door,
of words and concepts
bonds and chains
And all that's left
of you remains...
...\lol/...
but what remains of YOU I ask?
show me @Shoshin how you bask, cos
in buddha's glory
no one gloats
tell me truly
what gets your goat?
A Koan:
My ass!
OOOhhhh. A Buddhist birth catch 22! Clone verses original.
If ones subscribes to the idea that it was the coalescence of specific karma that allowed for Gautima's particular birth, to be able to have the identical spark reoccur later would be tantamount to saying that none of the karma that originally caused Gautama's birth was ever addressed by Gautima/Buddha's existence..
unless clones get a get out of karma free card.
Very insightful @how thanks, it's something that can be easily overlooked.....
"A koan My ass"
I guess nowadays anything can be a koan, and as you say @anataman even your ass
But that's an easy one to solve..."Shit Happens"
Nothing really, so it would seem - for I know life is but a dream!
I float through life without a care-freed from the grips of a nightmare !
And how about you ? What is hidden on your shelf ?
Could it be just an old attachment to self?
Why not let go and enjoy the ride-
hop on the train, there's still room inside !
But you'll have to let go of the self that clings
and all its crap and other things....
And no I'm not inclined to take a cheap shot
cause I know at times you might lose the plot!
But I'm glad you don't take things to heart-
instead like Nāgārjuna can take the 'self' apart !
Dharma rap wars!
Bring it on
(Mind you @Jeffrey, you could always start a new thread with that title)
@Shoshin
Nagarjuna knew you
for what you are;
you braised steaks
he called the bar...
It's not a dream:
it's who you are
Cooking meals
driving the car...
You can't deny
that this ain't happenin'
[NOW!] the illusion's real
and we're just grappling
with what we've got,
and it makes no sense
cos underlying it all...
is a non-sense!
buddhist rap wars
yeah @Jeffrey... that's really cool
and though I'm seen as just a tool
I know with words
I'm just a thin king
it's all a jest
but what're you bringing
to this table
here and now
vibrating harmonies, or
whinging howls!
there's more to all of this than very simple verse
and if everyone considered this:
minds are simple: basic poiesis
the poetic base;
life's mentality;
the most beautiful kinesis...
that will ever be!
Cloning buddha - really?
om no chocolate. screw dat!!