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Irish referendum on equal marriage rights appears to have passed
vinlyn
Colorado...for now Veteran
It occurred to me that this news story and what appears to be happening right here in the States may indicate -- in at least one way -- that the concept of human rights is trumping religion in some cultures.
What do you think?
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Comments
I think so too. It wasn't that long ago that the Irish voters were saying no to divorce.
Now the Middle East is a different story...
How true!
A few years ago Ajahn Brahm gave an interesting talk on "Gay Marriage" & "Human Rights" from a Buddhist perspective...
Ireland -- of all places! This is very exciting and a huge relief. The mass movement to tolerance is not just a blip on the radar, if a country like Ireland can permit gay marriage.
The folks 'in power' are listening to the Millenials (my kids generation) who, even if they are religious, are very tolerant of LGBTQ and so forth. On NPR the other night a Catholic priest from Dublin was interviewed, and this was the point he brought up -- they are losing the youngest adults in droves, seeming because of the intolerance of homosexual marriage. No doubt there's more to it than that, but gay marriage seems to be the pivot point.
Now if we can just get them to OK birth control . . .
This is also another indication that more Catholics are thinking for themselves, and not letting the Church think for them.
I find it incredible that such a Catholic country passed this. Gay rights have come such a long way in a fairly historically short period of time. Makes me so happy. Gives me hope. A lot of people have worked really hard to make this happen. I give a ton of that credit to all the gay people and their loved ones who have been willing to come out and tell their stories. Them sharing their lives is what has lead to people opening their minds and hearts. We need more of that. Bruce Jenner is doing the same thing for transexuals-opening the conversation. Good stuff. I really hope SCOTUS follows suit in June.
Interesting article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/world/europe/ireland-gay-marriage-referendum.html?_r=0
It says: "Not long ago, the vote would have been unthinkable. Ireland decriminalized homosexuality only in 1993, the church dominates the education system, and abortion remains illegal except when a mother’s life is at risk. But the influence of the church has waned amid scandals in recent years, while attitudes, particularly among the young, have shifted."
How wonderful.
Church/bigotry removal services always welcome. Oh the local Anglican Church bells have started ringing. Maybe they are celebrating. I hope the local Catholics will be flying rainbow flags shortly, maybe the local Tibetan Buddhists have spare bunting ...
Eh Ma Ho as we X-Catholics say. Forgive me Father Lama for I have been unmindful ...
I await gay cake rows with interest. Or perhaps gay Guinness?
^^^ or Gay Byrne?
That name is Gay!
Cheers!!
hi
The RC Church will not have to carry out LGBT Marriages,this vote in fact had nothing to do with the RC church ..under current law a gay marriage was just a civil union and could be repealed by legislation while a Straight marriage was supported by Bunreacht na hÉireann the Irish constitution now LBGT or HETRO are the same under the Constitution,BOTH are equal under the Constitution and can not be legislated away.
The RC Church can still refuse to marry LGBT people and it will sadly so so.
Slainte
Yildun
^^^ indeed. It really is about legal rights not Church dogma. It illustrates how far homophobic countries like Ireland can travel. Still more to do. Brothers and sisters in other countries being relegated to secondary or illegal status.
GAY is an acronym 'Good As You'. That really is the status of equality ...
@yildun, you're completely missing the point.
That's the whole point. I don't think anyone is trying to secularize church dogma. We're just trying to keep church dogma off the law books and in the churches where it belongs, where it can be hailed or prayed to and bigotted right left and center in the privacy of their puny little hearts.
I have an . . . acquaintance (barely) who is a Biblical literalist Christian who only talks to me, I think, because I both fascinate and disgust him (it works!). He claims that the move to 'tolerance' is an attempt to force people like him to THINK it's OK to be gay married. I didn't really understand that for the longest time. What does anyone care what you THINK in the privacy of your little pinhead?
But after some thinking about this, it hit me -- it's projection.
His POV is all about thought-control, and it is daily religious life for him to be preoccupied with controlling HIS thoughts and no doubt the thoughts of anyone he feels he has authority over, which in my estimation, is nearly everyone.
So naturally, he assumes the move toward equality is just like his literalist Christian intent, to control his thoughts. No amount of explanation or reassurance does a THING to comfort him out of this. I think it's because he can't conceptualize much of the human experience outside of the razor wire of his fundamentalist beliefs. Thought control (his own and that of others) has become some bizarre reality and he can't conceptualize how it might work otherwise.
I agree. Not only is Ireland the first country to approve gay marriage via a popular national vote, it managed to do so with a majority Catholic population (72%), suggesting a shift away from religious intolerance and towards a growing awareness of the need for equality among people of faith.
The vote has everything to do with the Catholic Church in Ireland. 84% of the people in Ireland are Catholic. That means a lot of them voted in a way not approved by the Church. They turned their backs on Church dogma and voted for their perception of morality.
If anything, the Church's intransigence on this issue will simply lead more away from being dominated by the Church.
I think that's OK. There are die-hard conservatives in all cultures that oppose any attempts to reform society. If the hard-core don't want to perform ceremonies, or otherwise include the LGBT community in their organization, they shouldn't have to, or feel they have to.
If human rights are observed in a nation, then LGBTs are free to associate with like-minded people in the religion of their choice. People will go where they are welcome and accepted.
I think it's all about balancing everybody's rights, and this seems to be 'the Middle Way' in my opinion anyway.
I'd like to clarify that I'm speaking only about religious organization here. I find the stuff going on with Hobby Lobby, etc. ridiculous. Keep everyone's bedroom preferences out of business altogether!
I do think that a church should not be required to conduct marriages against their tenets.
Quite so! And the idea that a supreme being would be in the least bit interested in what people get up to in the bedroom seems absurd to me.
Well, I have heard it said "God, that felt good!" so, maybe.....
I am not sure what the Supreme Beings get up to in the bedroom, if anything. Creation is weird/absurd enough for me ...
... and now back to the celebrations ...
Nice to hear that things are going well.
It was merely anecdotal....
The backlash begins:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/26/vatican-ireland-gay-marriage-referendum-vote-defeat-for-humanity
Fede: this picture looks rather like a Chakra Cleansing Cocktail...
In Argentina, gay people have been legally marrying for over five years now...
And they call us a third-world country...