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all this fuss about sex and religion

nottwonottwo Explorer

:” Throughout the world, so-called holy men have maintained that to look at a woman is something totally wrong: they say you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman.” K

“Sex is one of the most fundamental truths of life, so fundamental that if somebody says it is wrong, he is putting you in trouble. You cannot get rid of it. Unless you become really enlightened you cannot get rid of it. And to become enlightened there is no need to get rid of it. In fact, if you go deeper into it, enlightenment will be easier because a man who has gone deep in love will be capable of going deep in meditation — because in the deepest moments of love there are a few glimpses of meditation.” O

“Although most "spiritual disciplines" insist on evolving into higher states of consciousness by controlling or "denying the senses"and so called lower states of consciousness , Non dualism teaches that you cannot experience complete personal and spiritual liberation while restricting a part of your being.

                      How can one experience Total unity whilst denying a part of that Totality ?”

“Being able to have sexual contact without releasing semen is something needed when you practice the advanced stages of the complete stage." - The 14th Dalai Lama (Berzin Archives)

Whats your opinion ? =)

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Where sexual relationships fall into your practice depends on what kind of practice you have, your goals, where you are in life, and so on. I have 3 children and a husband. I don't plan on giving up a sexual relationship, and if that impedes me from enlightenment, then, meh, I don't mind. I'm good with coming back around for a while yet.

    I think if someone truly feels a strong calling towards celibacy, then that is what they should do. But not just because they desire to be ordained. I realize that is most often a part of the requirements, but I think it leads to suppression and a lot of shame and guilt for an inability to control the need and thus leads to a lot of problems, including abuse.

    I'm not sure I buy that you have to be celibate to become enlightened. Perhaps that is why I am not ready to go there yet.

    nottwo
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2015

    Non-dualism does not universally* say you cannot attain spiritual liberation while celibate.

    *it may be taught as such in some places but not every guru who teaches non-duality

    I am assuming K is Krishnamurti and O is Osho. Neither of those are teachers in the Buddhist tradition. That doesn't mean they are wrong, but I am pointing that out as I would for a Christian teaching or what have you. This is a Buddhist forum and thus relevant to point out when a quotation is from a guru who is not teaching the Buddhist dharma.

    I have never received tantric teachings though my teacher is approved to teach Mahamudra. My guru is inherently enabled to have sex without releasing semen considering that she is female!

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Some Sufi and Jewish mystics consider a married sexual life as quite normal and stabilising to their spirituality. B)

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    ah Jeffery re "This is a Buddhist forum and thus relevant to point out when a quotation is from a guru who is not teaching the Buddhist dharma.

    "All sentient beings have Buddha nature" Dōgen

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Thank you for NOT saying "straw man"!

    Rowan1980
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Everyone does have Buddha nature. And all are our teachers. But not in the same way. @Jeffrey has a good point. If someone were to bring teachings of Jesus here and ask "what do you think about this?" in this forum, the response would be similar. "Here is what I think...but he's not a Buddhist." It doesn't mean the information or teaching is invalid. Just that it might not apply the same way to those on a Buddhist path. I take wisdom from anywhere it presents itself. But some offer wisdom more of the "Now I know what I don't want to be" sort rather than "Yes, this is what I aspire to."

    Walkerlobsterredapple
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Yes, everyone can display Buddha nature. But if I have the Dali Lama and Ted Cruz here, I'll send Ted Cruz home.

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    starting to sound klike a born again christian forum,,but i guess thats the nature of fixed concepts :)

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Couldn't tell you, I've never frequented the born again Christian forums :)
    I don't reject anyone's wisdom or Buddha nature. I just don't find equal wisdom in my teacher as I do in Charles Manson. Not that they are not both human beings with lessons to offer. Just that I take a lot more from the former than the latter in regards to furthering my practice.

  • reb1220reb1220 Explorer

    I don't think in the beginning the object was, with the whole celibacy concept to outlaw or condemn sex altogether, but to raise us to a level where it did not dominate our thoughts, above being animalistic. I find it strange, in Christendom, that priests are supposed to be celibate, when most of the prophets in the biblical narratives had wives, children, etc. Also that one was not a good priest in the jewish religion unless he was married, it was considered perfectly normal.
    As a Buddhist, I simply see it as part of life. Not the most important part, but part nonetheless. ( And to be honest, a pretty enjoyable part.)

    nottwolobsterrobot
  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    sorry Karasti re" my teacher as I do in Charles Manson",going from the sublime to the rediculous (old englisg saying:)is exactly the actions of many born again christians,,but hey who's to say they are not correct,,all beliefs are concepts,,and who are we to judge :)

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    sorry Karasti re" my teacher as I do in Charles Manson",going from the sublime to the rediculous (old englisg saying:)is exactly the actions of many born again christians,,but hey who's to say they are not correct,,all beliefs are concepts,,and who are we to judge :)

    Tbh, that sounds argumentative just for argument's sake, @nottwo. You too are going from the sublime to the ridiculous here, because well obvious reasons, like saying people shouldn't be judgmental, but really we have to know when lines get crossed and what exactly is skillful and not skillful discernments in life.

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    ya know an interesting thing is people who try to understand eastern belief systems using Aristolean language precepts,things like good and bad right and wrong,,perhaps you might find reasearch of "platos truth virus" useful"

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    silver is that kettle pot black syn =) dome

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    but getting back to the original post,,and putting away our personal percieved perfections :) what do you think about sex and religious hangups

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    silver is that kettle pot black syn =) dome

    simply pointing out a little something to ya ;)

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    but getting back to the original post,,and putting away our personal perceived perfections :) what do you think about sex and religious hangups

    "perfections"? as far as I can see, there's nothing special about sex and religious hangups or sex hangups and religion. It's a sign of our times -- all times. One day it will change -- to what, we can't know exactly.

  • nottwonottwo Explorer
    edited May 2015

    =)

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    one conceptual thought pointing to anothere conceptual thought,, cool apreciate it :)

    Is there such a thing as a nonconceptual thought pointing to another nonconceptual thought? B)

    DakiniHamsakammo
  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    tat tvam asi

  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    tat tvam asi

    Hey, keep it clean.

    lobsternottwoRowan1980Hamsaka
  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    re "Is there such a thing as a nonconceptual thought pointing to another nonconceptual though" TAT TVAM ASI sankrit for "Thou are that" =)

    silverlobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    TAT TVAM ASI sankrit for "Thou are that" =)

    It is what it is
    Ivana Trungpa

    and now back to sex and fussing ... B)

  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    @nottwo said:
    :” Throughout the world, so-called holy men have maintained that to look at a woman is something totally wrong: they say you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman.” K

    “Sex is one of the most fundamental truths of life, so fundamental that if somebody says it is wrong, he is putting you in trouble. You cannot get rid of it. Unless you become really enlightened you cannot get rid of it. And to become enlightened there is no need to get rid of it. In fact, if you go deeper into it, enlightenment will be easier because a man who has gone deep in love will be capable of going deep in meditation — because in the deepest moments of love there are a few glimpses of meditation.” O

    “Although most "spiritual disciplines" insist on evolving into higher states of consciousness by controlling or "denying the senses"and so called lower states of consciousness , Non dualism teaches that you cannot experience complete personal and spiritual liberation while restricting a part of your being.

                          How can one experience Total unity whilst denying a part of that Totality ?”
    

    “Being able to have sexual contact without releasing semen is something needed when you practice the advanced stages of the complete stage." - The 14th Dalai Lama (Berzin Archives)

    Whats your opinion ? =)

    Not at all surprising, coming from the leader of a religion that's based on ritual sex at its esoteric level.

  • nottwonottwo Explorer

    Dakini i didnt know that about "The 14th Dalai Lama"

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2015

    Osho is a complete bonehead. He's a total quack and not "teacher" I am prepared to put any credence in.
    Sex, lust, masturbation and abstention are such common topics, and frequent on the majority of forums whether vocational/religious, or not.
    We've been having sex or abstaining from it for millennia, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Just as we will continue to all have our own hang-ups, opinions, views, judgements prejudices, inhibitions, ways of physically expressing and anecdotes.
    The subject has been done to death.

    And as I can already see the preliminary prickles of arguments arising, I thank you all for your contribution and will close the subject.

    And just a reminder that public comments on Moderator decisions are not good forum etiquette.

This discussion has been closed.