all this fuss about sex and religion
nottwo
Explorer
:” Throughout the world, so-called holy men have maintained that to look at a woman is something totally wrong: they say you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman.” K
“Sex is one of the most fundamental truths of life, so fundamental that if somebody says it is wrong, he is putting you in trouble. You cannot get rid of it. Unless you become really enlightened you cannot get rid of it. And to become enlightened there is no need to get rid of it. In fact, if you go deeper into it, enlightenment will be easier because a man who has gone deep in love will be capable of going deep in meditation — because in the deepest moments of love there are a few glimpses of meditation.” O
“Although most "spiritual disciplines" insist on evolving into higher states of consciousness by controlling or "denying the senses"and so called lower states of consciousness , Non dualism teaches that you cannot experience complete personal and spiritual liberation while restricting a part of your being.
How can one experience Total unity whilst denying a part of that Totality ?”
“Being able to have sexual contact without releasing semen is something needed when you practice the advanced stages of the complete stage." - The 14th Dalai Lama (Berzin Archives)
Whats your opinion ? 
Comments
Where sexual relationships fall into your practice depends on what kind of practice you have, your goals, where you are in life, and so on. I have 3 children and a husband. I don't plan on giving up a sexual relationship, and if that impedes me from enlightenment, then, meh, I don't mind. I'm good with coming back around for a while yet.
I think if someone truly feels a strong calling towards celibacy, then that is what they should do. But not just because they desire to be ordained. I realize that is most often a part of the requirements, but I think it leads to suppression and a lot of shame and guilt for an inability to control the need and thus leads to a lot of problems, including abuse.
I'm not sure I buy that you have to be celibate to become enlightened. Perhaps that is why I am not ready to go there yet.
Non-dualism does not universally* say you cannot attain spiritual liberation while celibate.
*it may be taught as such in some places but not every guru who teaches non-duality
I am assuming K is Krishnamurti and O is Osho. Neither of those are teachers in the Buddhist tradition. That doesn't mean they are wrong, but I am pointing that out as I would for a Christian teaching or what have you. This is a Buddhist forum and thus relevant to point out when a quotation is from a guru who is not teaching the Buddhist dharma.
I have never received tantric teachings though my teacher is approved to teach Mahamudra. My guru is inherently enabled to have sex without releasing semen considering that she is female!
Some Sufi and Jewish mystics consider a married sexual life as quite normal and stabilising to their spirituality.
ah Jeffery re "This is a Buddhist forum and thus relevant to point out when a quotation is from a guru who is not teaching the Buddhist dharma.
"All sentient beings have Buddha nature" Dōgen
@nottwo
non-sequitar. Sarah Palin has Buddha nature but I would not be interested in her instruction in spirituality both because she is not a Buddhist teacher and because she is a dufus.
Thank you for NOT saying "straw man"!
Everyone does have Buddha nature. And all are our teachers. But not in the same way. @Jeffrey has a good point. If someone were to bring teachings of Jesus here and ask "what do you think about this?" in this forum, the response would be similar. "Here is what I think...but he's not a Buddhist." It doesn't mean the information or teaching is invalid. Just that it might not apply the same way to those on a Buddhist path. I take wisdom from anywhere it presents itself. But some offer wisdom more of the "Now I know what I don't want to be" sort rather than "Yes, this is what I aspire to."
Yes, everyone can display Buddha nature. But if I have the Dali Lama and Ted Cruz here, I'll send Ted Cruz home.
starting to sound klike a born again christian forum,,but i guess thats the nature of fixed concepts
Couldn't tell you, I've never frequented the born again Christian forums
I don't reject anyone's wisdom or Buddha nature. I just don't find equal wisdom in my teacher as I do in Charles Manson. Not that they are not both human beings with lessons to offer. Just that I take a lot more from the former than the latter in regards to furthering my practice.
I don't think in the beginning the object was, with the whole celibacy concept to outlaw or condemn sex altogether, but to raise us to a level where it did not dominate our thoughts, above being animalistic. I find it strange, in Christendom, that priests are supposed to be celibate, when most of the prophets in the biblical narratives had wives, children, etc. Also that one was not a good priest in the jewish religion unless he was married, it was considered perfectly normal.
As a Buddhist, I simply see it as part of life. Not the most important part, but part nonetheless. ( And to be honest, a pretty enjoyable part.)
sorry Karasti re" my teacher as I do in Charles Manson",going from the sublime to the rediculous (old englisg saying:)is exactly the actions of many born again christians,,but hey who's to say they are not correct,,all beliefs are concepts,,and who are we to judge
Tbh, that sounds argumentative just for argument's sake, @nottwo. You too are going from the sublime to the ridiculous here, because well obvious reasons, like saying people shouldn't be judgmental, but really we have to know when lines get crossed and what exactly is skillful and not skillful discernments in life.
ya know an interesting thing is people who try to understand eastern belief systems using Aristolean language precepts,things like good and bad right and wrong,,perhaps you might find reasearch of "platos truth virus" useful"
silver is that kettle pot black syn
dome
but getting back to the original post,,and putting away our personal percieved perfections
what do you think about sex and religious hangups
simply pointing out a little something to ya
"perfections"? as far as I can see, there's nothing special about sex and religious hangups or sex hangups and religion. It's a sign of our times -- all times. One day it will change -- to what, we can't know exactly.
Is there such a thing as a nonconceptual thought pointing to another nonconceptual thought?
tat tvam asi
Hey, keep it clean.
re "Is there such a thing as a nonconceptual thought pointing to another nonconceptual though" TAT TVAM ASI sankrit for "Thou are that"
It is what it is
Ivana Trungpa
and now back to sex and fussing ...
Not at all surprising, coming from the leader of a religion that's based on ritual sex at its esoteric level.
@nottwo
Sex is a major expression of our conditioned natures.
&
Meditation is learning how not to be controlled by our conditioned impulses.
It is like talking about vegetarianism & Buddhism
Those Buddhists who like to eat flesh, defend why they do so
just as Buddhists who don't eat meat, justify why they don't,
but it's the attachments to either that is the real Buddhist issue.
Same with sex.
If you are attached to being celibate, you will suffer from that attachment.
If you are attached to sex, you will suffer from that attachment.
All the rationales in the world from both sides will not change the fact that
if you walk far enough along the Buddha's path towards suffering cessation, until both of those attachments are transcended, that is where your path walking will stop.
But, before ya think just walking some distance along this path is good enough...
what is mentioned less often is that folks can travel along this path in both directions.
Dakini i didnt know that about "The 14th Dalai Lama"
Osho is a complete bonehead. He's a total quack and not "teacher" I am prepared to put any credence in.
Sex, lust, masturbation and abstention are such common topics, and frequent on the majority of forums whether vocational/religious, or not.
We've been having sex or abstaining from it for millennia, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Just as we will continue to all have our own hang-ups, opinions, views, judgements prejudices, inhibitions, ways of physically expressing and anecdotes.
The subject has been done to death.
And as I can already see the preliminary prickles of arguments arising, I thank you all for your contribution and will close the subject.
And just a reminder that public comments on Moderator decisions are not good forum etiquette.