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Todays thought
illusion
Explorer
Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water. Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky.
Dogen Zenji (1200 - 1253)
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4
Comments
so?
Yes.
So.
Today's thought or today's quote?
We iz bad to the noobs
Dear @illusion nobody thinks badly of you. Nobody thinks you are a woos or lyin' Lion.
What you require is confirmation of your wisdom if you are honest. However you are displaying without confirmation.
Saying wise things does not make us wise. Distorting perception is not the Buddha Dharma.
You have been Buddha slapped. So?
Be kind to us, most of us are cowardly lions. In fact I am cowering behind Tonto even as we speak ...
But what does this mean to you and how does it affect your practice?
@illusion thanks for the post, I found it helpful.
How do you see yourself?
@illusion name hint hint "I" think "I" like it.....
hi could the more important question be
how do "you" see "your" self ?
is that more of that humor you were talking about?
why are you asking?
Because without an explanation we don't know why you are posting it and because this is a discussion forum, not a bulletin board.
What does it mean to you?
Exactly, so how do "you" see "yourself?"
I ask myself questions including:
Many of us can find inspirational sauces and sources.
Many of us redirect or avoid or play the 'spirituality game'.
However deep down we are and have the capacity for Truth. To engage with the Real, we have to stop the trite answers encouraged by some game playing institutions and forums.
'Why are you asking/telling?' is part of what we all share in. Is that an answer?
Because you are not.
Yes and no. Rather what @ourself already expressed above in a different wording: a comment transcribed without an opinion is more of a quote than a thought.
Not the ideal ice-breaker to begin a discussion.
The quote is very interesting, though it strikes me as too many words for a Zen description of Enlightenment.
As to @lobster's reference to newbies, I was a prim, pompous prick of a newbie.
Practice and the forum have emptied my cup and roughened my edges. And helped take myself less seriously...
and
I see that the 'smartass' tendency is still a factor....
The whole point of belonging to a discussion forum is to discuss and engage, and exchange ideas, views and opinions.
Not bait others with answers we consider to be cute or superior.
Amazing how many people of the latter ilk have fallen by the wayside, tripped up by their own unabashed pseudo-intellectual Egos....
That's my hobby gone
Exactly so. The ego is very subtle. We all have tendencies. We all have baggage. Dukkha if you will.
... however we are not pretending, running from our tendencies. If anything we make use of them ...
For example I love talking about me. It is my favourite topic. It is how I know that everyone really only talks from their perspective. They are in essence a manifestation of their nature. Some mentioning no names [oh OK there is 'me' again] manifest aspects of True Nature, Buddha Nature etc [strange but true]. On occasion this becomes apparent in others and for others and in others. They start to become more real. A big part of that comes from a practice. An implementation of dharma.
So we are trying in our inept way to recognise a deeper aspect of Self, both in our ego self and our potential Higher Self [apologies for New Age term] beyond clinging and attachment to our trite tendencies.
Now I know @illusion recognises this but it seems we are playing a 'game' some have not come across.
We are. It is the Middle Way.
We are Buddhists (mostly) - hey that is pretty cute but not superior enough ... ah well ... best I got
... I iz smartass! [lobster hangs head in mock but very cute shame] ...
@federica I've thankfully had my spiritual ego squashed a few times.
it's a really good thing.
I remember reading about some zen practices of prostrating to develop humility.
Prostrate for your teacher , your teacher prostrates to you.
Prostrate to a cat.
Prostrate to the toilet. Hahah.
I tried this on my dog, he loved it. He returned the bow by licking my face.
Let me try and answer
And throw in some more amazing quotes, that were possibly spoken for the good of all
I posted the quote for all to enjoy, I never dreamed it would cause people so many problems,
“It is like a lighted torch whose flame can be distributed to ever so many other torches which people may bring along; and therewith they will cook food and dispel darkness, while the original torch itself remains burning ever the same. It is even so with the bliss of the Way. [Sutra of 42 Sections]” possibly Buddha
is it a “thought or today's quote?” its amazing words “or it’s a quoted thought , J
I know people who read Zen that would suggest this is quite short in comparison, but please go check it out, I would hate to mislead you, let me know if I can help with any study links
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
Possibly Buddha
Ourself re “What does it mean to you?” it has deep meaning for me but how do I explain that to you, it would be like trying explain the fragrance of a rose,, they are my experiences, would they help your path,,? ,, how will my understanding help you? Tell me, I,m all to happy to help in any way I can…
“No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.”
Possibly Buddha
Earth ninja you’re a beautiful soul re “exactly, so how do "you" see "yourself?"
I see myself as knowing nothing,, and the more I experience the less I realize I know
On a lighter note Why these words eg, prim, pompous prick of a newbie, redirect or avoid or play the 'spirituality game’. Was there a message
“If you truly loved yourself, you could never hurt another.”
Possibly Buddha
Lobster re 'Why are you asking/telling? One is doing neither or trying to “convince” you of anything in this thread, one was hoping to share with like minded people, ancient writings, do you think the thread has taken that direction?
“A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.”
Possibly Buddha
Federica one more thing in another thread you stated
“Insulting members and name-calling is unacceptable”
smart arse unabashed pseudo-intellectual Egos,, what is the point of these comments?
I,m not sure of your intentions, please enlighten
“Words do not express thoughts very well; every thing immediately becomes a little different, a little distorted, a little foolish. And yet it also pleases me and seems right that what is of value and wisdom of one man seems nonsense to another.”
Possibly Buddha
No one was intentionally insulted or treaty rudely
But hey I understand if you need to ban me or close this thread,
You are no problem
You have not shared. Not yet.
In Sufism the term 'unloading' is used. In Dharma we sometimes talk about 'cup emptying'. You assume you are sharing by quoting what you consider wisdom. It is your best. No doubt. It is well meant. You are polite so there is no reason for you to be any trouble.
and now back to other mirrors ...
“The Buddha’s dharma didn’t teach peace and relaxation; it taught awakening—often rude awakening.”
― Jay Michaelson, Evolving Dharma: Meditation, Buddhism, and the Next Generation of Enlightenment
@illusion it's good to know nothing
I think the folks here like to hear words of wisdom/ignorance/banter from other people
Quotes are good when discussed but if you just throw quotes without any context... Well can you imagine what it would be like around here!
Like facebook positive quotes on every page.
Sure one or two is great... But have you seen my news feed! The positivity is annoying. Hahaha.
@Illusion, There was no name-calling. I didn't call you anything. I just indicated that certain tendencies and attitudes weren't skilful.
Take that as a given.
We don't want too much of that!
( nuffink like a nice grumble )
@SpinyNorman haha the middle way right!
@illusion;
If you can't explain your thoughts with words why would you try using somebody elses?
If their thoughts have helped you why do you suppose your thoughts couldn't help us?
I know, a lot of people say words are no good but they really are better than not bothering.
"Thoughts cannot be expressed with words" That there was a thought that was expressed with words. Did you understand it? Me too.
Plus there is poetry to help with hard concepts and to allude to the symbolic that regular wording fails at.
Buddha put his thoughts into words and so did all the other people we quote around here so there is really no excuse for us.
For the last 2500 years or so we have been putting the dharma into words and although some may feel there is purity lost, I am forever grateful.
do you need help
We all could do with a hand, sometimes, yes?
@illusion
Try imagining....
If there was one person in your own group of friends, who when you all got together,
could never talk about what he personally thought but only read aloud from a book...
This is what your postings seem like on this site..
Really not wanting to insult...Just trying to explain why the folks here are responding to your postings in the way that they are doing.
I think its what we think is what be become as the Buddha taught. Nice picture.
Interesting response.
I think you answered my query, thanks.
Apologies in advance, but the link itself was huge:
Tough crowd
This site is itself an illusion...
If you dare to contribute, then you must be aware you are responsible for your contribution...
And if it means nothing - SO BE IT...
...\lol/..
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hi how thanks for the advice
Actually there is a physicist and a mathematician within our group of friends
Who are always quoting from books, or lectures, I have no desire or need to demand they conform to my way thinking or beliefs, their my friends and I respect their individuality and freedom to be who they are, and I might add by just listening with out judgment and expectation I have learned so much from them and their quotes
I discovered when one understands the words of the wise, one stops seeing things as being separate,
"The true man or woman of religion is a rebellion, a profound revolution, a whirlwind in the midst of all that tends toward stagnation, fixity, deadness. The true force of spirituality is a cool breeze blowing down from the mountain heights bringing new and fresh air into the world of mediocrity. It awakens, enlivens, and makes the heart bold and courageous. The awakened heart intervenes in affairs of ordinary men and women provoking one and all with an invitation. " - Traktung Rinpoche
no insult taken,i do understand where your cumming from
are those spelling mistakes mistakes?
Some folks just make books their tribe so
no accountability or rejection can be experienced.
Guess what their posts sound like?
is that comment based on the culmination of, your understanding of, the Buddha’s precepts, or just you being what federica did'nt suggest
I see a huge ego blustering behind this pile of quotes, seeking validation, and honestly, I have no intention to preen this ego anymore.
May the force be with you, my brainy quote friend
hi now thats impressive
here is a home truth
"That which most irritates, enrages, or disturbs us about another reveals, through the mechanism Jung termed "projection," what we unconsciously most despise, reject, or ignore within our own self."
whats wrong with you people ?
TODAYS QUOTE or THOUGHT
20 June
This dialogue repeats itself three times. Three times over, the
Buddha says the same thing, and Bahiya responds in the same
way. Finally, the Buddha says, “When a Tathagata is pressed
three times, he has to answer. Listen carefully, Bahiya, and
attend to what I say:
In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
Upon hearing these words, Bahiya was immediately enlightened.
Moments later he was killed by a runaway cow. So he was
right: life is uncertain. Later Bahiya was awarded the title of
“The Disciple Who Understood the Teaching Most Quickly.”
Practice. Experience. Awareness. Having insight into our self and others. Describing and owning the egoic self. Knowing the limits of quotes we can easily find and learn from.
'You people' ... Really?
We people are right with you. We are a little hard on you. Thanks for putting up with us, especially Lobster. What an ego!
http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/buddhism-beyond-words-and-phrases.html
your hard on me
your hard on yourselves
only a high ego would not understand,that basic concept
“Conquer the angry one by not getting angry; conquer the wicked by goodness; conquer the stingy by generosity, and the liar by speaking the truth.
Gautama Buddha
TODAYS QUOTE or THOUGHT
24 June
"An untroubled mind,
No longer seeking to consider
What is right and what is wrong,
A mind beyond judgements,
Watches and understands."
TODAYS QUOTE or THOUGHT
25 June
This principle of nonabiding is also contained within the ancient
Theravada teachings. It wasn’t just Ajahn Chah’s personal insight
or the legacy of some stray Nyingmapa lama who wandered
over the mountains and fetched up in northeast Thailand 100
years ago. Right in the Pali Canon, the Buddha points directly
to this. In the Udana (the collection of “Inspired Utterances”
of the Buddha), he says:
There is that sphere of being where there is no earth,
no water, no fire, nor wind; no experience of infinity
of space, of infinity of consciousness, of no-thingness,
or even of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; here
there is neither this world nor another world, neither
moon nor sun; this sphere of being I call neither a coming
nor a going nor a staying still, neither a dying nor
a reappearance; it has no basis, no evolution, and no
support: it is the end of dukkha. (ud. 8.1)
Rigpa, nondual awareness, is the direct knowing of this. It’s
the quality of mind that knows, while abiding nowhere.