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Abhidhamma lesson discussion
upekka
Veteran
is there any one who likes to discuss Abhidhamma after reading a chapter from the book Abhidhamma by Narada Thero which is available on internet?
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i feel there are some forum members who can help us to understand this deep Dhamma
Not me!
I am still waiting for the flower raising sutra to begin ...
Go Buddha!
i'll try my best all alone until someone or others come to help me in this quest
Well that rose is still not up. Perhaps, while we are waiting ...
... you have an example from the book that requires some depth? It was a little on the Theravadin side for my simple tastes but someone provided with a link, subject and question may oblige with mutual beneficial study ...
First type of consciousness or mind (Consciousness Rooted in Attachment) is
by pleasure, and connected with wrong view,
can anyone give an example from our day today life
thanks in advance
I want that dress. I can't stop thinking about that dress. It would look so good on me. I really want to buy it. But it costs a bomb, and I really can't afford it. But I sooo want that dress, I can't stop thinking about it..... maybe I can get my employer to raise my salary... or get a bank loan....
After all, it's only money... and I would look sooo hot.....
i can see
the craving (rooted in attachment)[want, can't stop thinking]
and
delusion about the dress (wrong view -the dress is permanent/nicca)
and
unprompted (no one initiated the want but want comes within)
but i can't see any 'pleasure' in it
again craving, wrong view and unprompted are there
still i am decent, i do not think to attack my employer to get money or steal money from him or i do not think to rob the bank
actually i see wisdom here
may be i am little foolish to think like that (again ignorance, no wisdom?)
Federica, i analyse your example as above and can you or anyone improve it
or
give another example with 'pleasure'
i don't think there is any harm one can do by just wanting to have that dress (apart from the ignorance about having a hot appearance if one could get that dress,) and have unsatisfactory mind (suffering/dukka)
It's not about wanting the dress. It's an excessive desire, a craving, expecting a positive and beneficial result, which cannot happen without the dress.....
yes federica, i agree with you
but to make it as an example for 'First type of consciousness' one has to have a stealing intention too
then there is mind involvement of bad thing with pleasure
what do you think?
even if one hasn't steal it yet, one has the stealing intention
preventing from stealing is one of the five precept
what do you (or any other) think?
I think you're incorrect, no such intention has to arise at all....
Why has 'stealing' now suddenly come into the question...?
having craving is intrinsic nature of us (worldly people)
to be in the 'First type pf consciousness' i think there should be stealing, tell tales etc. to gain something
what do you think?
I think this discussion is too open to your interpretation, and I think you are grasping at ideas which actually have little to do with the original quotation...
And for that reason, I'm out. (I'm watching Dragon's Den, at the mo'...
)
no problemo
be happy with whatever you do
Awesome gif!
This is simple I think. Last time I was at the local store I saw this amazing 6 foot tall slender women with the most beautiful elfin face. Probably 5-10 years older than me. Dressed in working overall with bare arms. Could not stop staring.
My head turned more or less on its own toward her. Unprompted.
at her because I am in a committed relationship.
I felt pleasure at seeing her.
I knew I should not be staring like that
How about that?
/Victor
I thought you were a martial artist, can not even control your head, tsk, tsk
moth to the flame, buddha to the candle
Ah well ... my head is easily turned too, I iz useless practitioner
Well according to the suttas the female form is the most pleasing to a male and vice versa.
I am just trying to determine the exactness of that statement.
Still not sure. Might take another study next time I run into a 6 foot blonde amazon again....
/Victor
@lobster. You are pretty useful to me machang.
thanks victorious for the example and the way you analyse it
i continued analyzing federica's example again and again and it helped me to understand First type of consciousness better
pleasure by seeing the dress
craving and ignorance (lobha and moha)
craving and ignorance (dosa and moha)
craving (lobha and moha)
volition (sankhara)
Dress is a perception in the mind but because of ignorance "I" want to get that Dress thinking that is Form outside
but that dress is just four elements and colour
still creating Kamma because of 'my' ignoranace
Thank you very much Federica and Victorious
if anyone like to provide example for Second Type of consciousness, it is appreciated in advance
victorious by any chance do you know charles? (who likes to discuss abhidhamma)
How about finding a wallet with money inside? How many people out there would not take the money if it was a lot $$$$?
I have found a briefcase with nearly £1000 in it, and I never took it. I handed it in to the Police.
You have more compassion than me. I would have bought a new laptop.
there is temptation to get the money
so pleasure, unprompted with wrong view
but there are many people who do not take money and hand over the wallet to the appropriate place which can find the person who lost it
i know without doubt there are such people, as a habit they handover it to proper people to find the person who owns the wallet, and this is the habit built in character of some people but not always all behave like that
this type of beautiful consciousness is discuss at later stage of the chapters of abhidhamma manual by Narada Thero
doing good and bad always happen with normal people generally, because we have the habitual tendencies built in our character
i found thinking this line of thought helps us clearly see what happens in our mind and that helps us to purify our thoughts
No sorry. cant say I do.
Are there many translations/versions of the Abhidhamma? As I understand it the Abhidhamma was individual in some parts to each school?
english translation of abhidhamma is by Narada Thero: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
if you can understand sinhala there is a nice, simple, good explanation of abhidhamma which is given by Ven Welimada Jinalankara Thero
at savanata sisislasa (http://www.savanatasisilasa.org/)
lessons begin from the scrach, even if your understanding of abhidhamma is nil that does not matter
anybody who do not know abhidhamma can understand clearly
in my case, i am much like abhidhamma now and would able (more or less) to identify things people talk and things people do according to what i have learned from ven jinalankara theros lessons
actually i started this thread thinking others would get an interest in abhidhamma because how i know now how beautiful the Teaching is
before i tried two three times to learn abhidhamma but gave up thinking it is for people who have great wisdom
but ven jinalankara thero make it is very simple and understandable
after i listened to these 95 lessons, now i feel how i am lucky to know sinhala language
Yes knowing Sinhala gives a big advantage.
I will have a look. Thank you!
/Victor