Right Livelihood - Job or Career, Which Is More Important?
FairyFeller
Veteran
A recent family discussion has had me wondering on the Buddhist perspective on this question.
11 years ago I decided that I needed to find a job where I was putting something back into society and felt nursing would suit my personality. 4 years of hard slog as a Health Care Assistant while studying to get the qualifications to get into university and 3 years at university got me qualified. 18 months of working in stressful role gave me very useful experience and then I moved into a role that I love, I get up every morning and look forward to going to work. I was recently offered the opportunity to move into a role which would effectively be a promotion and start me on a career ladder but I chose not to take it and whereas my family respect my choice I feel they find it hard to understand my lack of ambition.
It got me thinking though, having ambition or choosing a progressive career path could be seen as desire whereas choosing to stay as I am could be seen as attachment or not recognising things will change.
I'm not asking you to make the decision for me as that opportunity has passed but having made the choice it's got me thinking.
Comments
Moving up the ladder usually involves more supervision of others, something that some people excel at, and others find difficult. I held an assistant supervisor position in the warehouse industry for almost 10 years, and I enjoyed it for the first few years, but eventually got burned out, and ended up leaving the company. That was 3 years ago, and I haven't worked since for a variety of health reasons.
It sounds like you enjoy what you do, and are having a positive impact in the lives of others. Nothing wrong with that. And change happens, whether you take promotions or not. Sometimes people with experience are needed to deal with those changes.
@FairyFeller said "It got me thinking though, having ambition or choosing a progressive career path could be seen as desire whereas choosing to stay as I am could be seen as attachment or not recognising things will change.
I'm not asking you to make the decision for me as that opportunity has passed but having made the choice it's got me thinking."
Now that you've had some time to think about your choice, maybe a new offer to move into a career will come along and maybe you'll feel more adept at making 'the right choice' so just keep on keepin' on in the meantime.
Make a list of all the things that you must do every day.
Make a list of all the things that bring you happiness.
Adjust accordingly.
I think you're in a good vocation as far as Right livelihood. If you are still making a difference and learning how to do the best you can in that role then unless it hurts you to be there, I think it's a great place to be.
Thank you for all your feedback, both roles were very similar nursing roles but one was more career driven and had much more scope for further promotions.
I was wondering whether not wanting to move on from an old job is about attachment or looking for promotion is a form of desire, both of which can be negative aspects and whether by sticking with the original is trying to deny change will happen.
You headed this as Job or Career.
If you are where you want to be and where you see yourself at through to retirement, this is your career.
Just don't forget to include per-planning for the "retirement years" when what you do is volunteer work...
Right livelihood means earning for needs which would not become reason to harm others including all living animals.
It's completely your decision to where to move in career. Anyhow you will be hard working which does not harm orhers. As lionduck said it is imporrant to think financial security and take decision accordinly.
A career consists of a series of jobs, usually around a common theme and along a hierarchy.
Right livelihood is expressed as "...where a disciple of the noble ones, having abandoned dishonest livelihood, keeps his life going with right livelihood: This is called right livelihood."
Factors such as:
"And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong livelihood as wrong livelihood, and right livelihood as right livelihood. And what is wrong livelihood? Scheming, persuading, hinting, belittling, & pursuing gain with gain. This is wrong livelihood..."
"One tries to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter into right livelihood: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter & remain in right livelihood: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right livelihood."
I suppose it may be that the pressures of maintaining the 'ambitious' momentum of a career could lead to scheming, persuading, hinting, belittling or pursuing gain with gain - though I suppose nothing would specifically preclude this arising in a job also.
Ambition is a tough one - it is a word employed in a social context - I think it is pursuant to a collective contract, in part at least, associated with social positions - therefore, there is a requirement that broadly participants share similar or compatible ideologies - in a sense, the ambitious need everyone to sign up to the agenda so that all may take their positions along the hierarchy with a few at the top - this is supported from the bottom up so to speak - those subscribing may fall into antagonism with those that challenge / undermine the hierarchy agenda.
It could be or equally not - one needs to consistently consider right view, right effort, & right mindfulness at the very least. I suggest it is not an issue of better convincing others but rather of better knowing oneself.
OP, your question isn't relevant to your situation, IMO. You're already doing Bodhisattva work by being in healthcare and serving others. The only possible consideration would be whether the promotion track would provide you with enhanced opportunities to help others, to help more people (by perhaps driving policy) or to help them more effectively. If not, if promotions would mean mostly -- more bureaucracy, supervising others, politics, etc., then stay where you are, if it pays you enough to live on.
But what if some day you want to get married and start a family? Do you make enough to provide for kids?
These choices CAN be made for reasons of attachment or desire, and many people choose for these reasons. But I think it's backwards to look at a particular choice and then retrospectively infer or assign a motive or label. Better to examine your motives, passions, goals, talents first. Then consider your choices.
If you went into your job to help people and give back, will a promotion (in whatever direction) continue to allow you to do that? That is what I would ask. Several times I have been offered (and strongly encouraged) higher levels of more supervisory jobs, and every time I have regretted taking the opportunity. I loved the job I was doing, but the insistence of some that I could "do better" or "do more" and the lure of money always pushed me onto the ladder. And then I ended up quitting because I started to hate the job. It wasn't the job I signed up for, it wasn't what I wanted to do because I lose the ability to do the parts of the job I loved in favor of being a babysitter and doing paperwork instead of interacting with the client.
I wished I had considered the question, "money aside, are you going to be happy losing all those things about the job that you enjoy?"
For some people, the answer to that question is yes, because they can offer skills at another level that are just as needed in society. You might not be the person "working the floor" or whatever, but being a leader of those people directly influences the care and attention they can give and their attitudes in doing so. Some people are uniquely blessed to be able to lead a team that way. Others are uniquely suited to stay in their spot forever.
So, from a Buddhist point of view that is how I would look at it. Whether your skills and abilities would be better used in one place versus another. Where can you best help people and have a positive impact on them and society? (since that was your goal to start)
Geez, you've kind of painted yourself into a corner with that one, eh?
I think you may be creating a false dilemma here because you don't leave much wiggle room for positivity.
You have been so useful that you were offered a promotion and you are in a career that helps others.
You can't really get more Right livelihood than that.
Maybe you just weren't ready to step outside of your comfort zone or maybe you feel like you are most useful and content where you are for now.
That isn't denying change will happen or saying you will never be ready to advance.
And on the other hand, if your career is helping others then you wouldn't really be changing much except the way you go about helping.
I see win/win, not lose/lose.
Again, thank you all for your replies. As most of you have pointed out I am looking for faults in my thought processes where there probably isn't, this is something I can do to myself if I allow myself to go unchecked.
A couple of people have spoken to me about the position today and the reason I was considered was because of my personality, the way I am with my patients and other skills I possess. They may not be unique skills but I have a good way of combining them. Yes I'm good for my patients where I am but I could be helping in a new way, where the patients are a little bit worse off, a little bit more stressed. In someways I'm treading water now but I could push myself a little and help out a lot more.
Thank you for all your advice, I think the weekend will be about considering my position(s) and Monday morning might be about trying to see if I can undo the email where I said I didn't want it.
I am sure you already know this, but on a more personal note, an amazing nurse placed into a difficult situation with an advanced or particularly challenging patient can mean the world to the family. During the week I sat with my grandma before she passed from the world, there were a lot of nurses. Some were excellent. Others were very good but just our personalities didn't jive. Others were not very good at all and were impatient, bordering on rude, very rough, lacking understanding of the elderly and the care they need in their states. I don't know they don't like the job, didn't like my grandma's case, had a sick child at home, didn't sleep, or what. But a couple of them were like that every shift they had, and I don't' understand staying in a job where you cannot do such an important job compassionately and with understanding. So wherever you can bring those skills to a patient and their family, then I think you should at whatever level you are best suited to do so.
If you can't undo that particular e-mail (and many of us have written things we wish we could un-write!) remember that the opportunity came to you because you are noteworthy. Nursing is an amazing field, and so to stand out as special from among that crowd means you are particularly amazing. If this door stays closed, you will still be amazing. Stay amazing. Other doors will come.
It turns out my email of interest was just in time, I have a meeting with the leader and co-ordinator of the team in two weeks time.
If I get/take the position there's going to be lot of study (which I enjoy) but my dyslexia will be a challenge but the 'reward' will be a job where I will be providing a great support to people at a very stressful time. The bonus is that it's a great avenue towards a role I saw myself doing in 5-10 years time but wasn't sure how to get there.
The meeting went well and I was offered and accepted the job. I'm going to be supporting patients faced with a cancer diagnosis so it's going to be challenging but not too dissimilar from what I do now.
Probably the worst thing for me though is there's going to be a few weeks 300 miles away from home for the training courses which I will hate, I get twitchy if I go past the borders of my hometown or if I don't see The Missus for 10 hours.
@FairyFeller - Congrats on the new job! Strange that you have to travel so far for training courses... I would have thought that most health care employers would have virtual training these days.
Also, fist bump to a fellow health care worker (I'm a Rehabilitation Assistant)
There is nothing wrong with being "just a nurse" (in lieu of HUGE finger quotes) Nurse is a noble profession. If you are driven by helping people directly rather than be removed from that and supervising people doing it then do what makes you happy.
It was never about me seeing anything wrong with being "just a nurse" and I don't think I've ever used that phrase unless a patient has specifically asked me for a diagnosis. (That's the trouble with being male and wearing scrubs, people automatically assume I'm a doctor even though I wear a lanyard emblazoned 'STAFF NURSE'. I even had one senior nurse from a ward I was visiting repeatedly ask me to prescribe a patient strong meds even though I showed him my ID card and lanyard and told him I was 'just a nurse'.
I am very proud to be a nurse and even yesterday I had a retired colleague say what a difference my attitude and helpfulness had made to them with their role.
My original query came about when various friends/family members pointed out that I should be thinking about promotion but I was happy to stay where I was. It was more about was I being too attached and refusing to accept change with wanting to stay in my old role or was looking at promotion a form of desire. The opinion was that it was probably neither and that I was looking for fault where there wasn't any and it turned out that the promotion they wanted me to go for was to better utilise my skills.
I'd been doubting my decision again today (I do get too attached and fear change) but having just typed that it's reminded me why I made the choice so thank you.
Here's my story for you. You'll have to decide on how it applies to your situation...if it does at all. I was very happy being an assistant principal. I enjoyed my long summer vacations -- not as long as teachers had, but longer than principals had. I could take my trips to Thailand and stay almost 7 weeks. So when the principalship vacancy opened at my school the first time, I did not apply. A couple of years later it opened up again and many of the teachers wanted me to go for it, but I still valued my summers. One of the teachers who was a good friend took me aside and said, "But Vince, your salary will so much higher as a principal, and that will mean much more of a retirement pension. Think long term rather than short term. Sacrifice really long summers for 4 week long summers, and then think how much you will be able to travel when you retire because of your higher pension." I somewhat reluctantly took her advice, got the job, loved it, and now I do have a great pension. My pension would have been very good as an assistant principal retiree, but it's excellent now as a principal retiree.
When you think about it, I was attached to my long summers and wasn't seeing my future clearly.
Another quick story. Years ago when I was a teacher I was invited to an embassy party (I taught in a suburb of D.C.). I felt very out of place among ambassadors and folks from the State Department, but the ambassador's son (who attended our school) had invited me. I was nervously chatting with several embassy types, and one asked me what I did for a living. "I'm just a teacher." The ambassador, who was standing nearby, heard my comment, stepped over and said, "Just a teacher? What could be more noble?" I feel that way about really good nurses. Having had surgery twice the last three years, several nurses were so very comforting and reassuring. They made a real difference. So I will pay it forward a bit here -- nursing? What could be more noble?