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Lies, love, and relationships
Emmalou
Tx Explorer
Hello I'm new to the community. I was wanting to know the best way to look at this through Buddhist beliefs, my husband won't stop sexting, and paying for cam shows. He only confesses when I catch him lies the rest of the time and hides it. He says he's embarrassed of it and says he really loves me and the baby we have. I feel it's really stressful on my emotional well being, but he says he doesn't want to do it and doesn't want us to go. The question is how do I approach this, do I help him, or get away from the pain it is causing me. Btw we are happy in the bedroom idk why he does it
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Porn addiction, possibly. Suggest he get counseling for that. The bright side of the situation is that he admits he doesn't want to do it, and doesn't want to lose his family over it. The only thing that can help him is to see a counselor who specializes in porn addiction. Present this idea to him in a kind, supportive way, not an accusatory one. If he balks, tell him the situation is too painful to live with, and that you'd rather support him in getting help, than leave, because you love him and you're happy with him except for this one thing. You could say that you think he'd probably be happier without this element in his life, as well, so couldn't he just give counseling a go, to see if he finds it helpful? Try to stay positive and constructive in the discussion.
It sounds like an addiction to me too (I'm an alcoholic (sober)). I sponsor a guy in A.A. who is also a member of sex-addicts anonymous; he was also addicted to porn (and lots of other stuff).
I wouldn't take it personal; it's nothing to do with you really (in a nice way), in much the same way as if he had some other non-substance abuse addiction (like gambling), but if he really can't stop it - even if he really wants to - he should investigate getting help.
Oh, I think they'd deal with it in exactly the way you're doing. A non Buddhist approach may involve a sharp knife and/or a separation. You seem to be approaching it from a more compassionate and understanding point of view - which doesn't mean you need be soft on him.
Hi @Emmalou - welcome!
I am a male and have been in an almost identical situation as your husband.
Thankfully I have a supportive wife and we were able to talk about it fairly openly.
My way of dealing with it was to add a web filter to ALL devices in the house and have her set the password so I couldn't bypass it.
It's been about two years now and the urge to watch porn has pretty much subsided for me.
I know each situation is different but I'll say two things:
As @Tosh said, don't take it personally!! I love my wife and don't want our relationship to end. Watching porn was an escape and a way I dealt with anxiety.
Be supportive of him and don't shame him. Shame with regard to an addiction like this (if it is indeed an addiction) often makes the user turn to the very thing they're addicted to for relief.
Good luck!
I'm trying hard. I had postpartum and was on meds, and now I'm getting off of them my father has been in icu too, I just feel I'm a mess as well, and I'm working on myself to be better, but it's just hard when this is added to the mix. I've always read "to help one you must first help yourself"
Thank you for your comments it feels nice to reach out
It is hard, for sure. No one wants to feel like they aren't making their partner happy. Compulsions and addictions can be a mental illness problem, they don't really speak to you or your relationship (though it doesn't make it any easier!)
I would definitely suggest counseling. But don't do it as a threat or punishment. At some point when things are quiet, sit down and talk with him. Tell him how it makes you feel, and you are concerned that he doesn't know why he does it. Ask him if he'd be willing to go to counseling. You could even just go to couples counseling together, so he feels supported by you and that you are focused on the relationship and not that he is doing something bad.
It's quite possible those things are a distraction. Perhaps he is having trouble dealing with the huge change that is having a baby, too. It is fairly common for men to struggle, but they rarely feel comfortable talking about it. For him to start to learn why he does it (which is the key to him stopping if that is what he needs to do) he needs to understand the root causes. Counseling would help him get through that. He also maybe could use some help from a counselor to understand where you are coming from with postpartum concerns. He may just be feeling overwhelmed and in need of an outlet.
As far as the idea that you have to first help yourself, it's kind of a complicated thing. Yes, it makes sense that we aren't of the best use to others when we have serious things to work on with ourselves. But we mostly always have things to work on with ourselves. Sometimes, focusing on helping others is exactly what helps us work through our own stuff. There is nothing wrong with either option, but it can be tricky to figure out what you need. You can't fix anyone else, of course. But counseling can help with all that, too. You most certainly wouldn't be the first couple with a new baby to need someone to talk to. It's a crazy amount of stress and major changes.
That's an interesting question regarding what the Buddhist understanding would be. I had a girl friend who actually cheated on me with other people (not just porn) and that was at a time when I was reading about Buddhism and meditating. I wasn't married though and we did not have a baby. At that time I tried to do what I needed for myself to feel happy but yet I did not suppress my upset feelings rather I 'gave them space'. So I tried to work on the problem between my ears because I did not have control with my 'friend' and what she wanted and did.
Consider Buddhism as a tool to help you evolve.
Consider Marital counselling as a tool to help you BOTH evolve.
Well, this is an interesting addition. You could add to your talk with your hubs that you've been struggling with your own situation (which, happily, has improved), plus, now, you have your dad to worry about, which adds up to a lot of challenges, a lot of potential stress. And it would really help you if your hubs could be there for you in full, to lend support through it all, without adding to the strain. You could say that you need him to be the best person he can be, and then you two can work as a team. So it's important to you that he work on overcoming his addiction, and only professional help will be effective.
Keep your talk heart-based, coming from your heart, not judgmental.
Watching porn and stuff, gettting you upset, sounds like inwise use of the third precept. (Refrain from sexual misconduct).
He proberly is not into buddhism.
So.
A: get him into buddhism
B: get counseling
C: accept him
D : break-up
Good luck!
Do you > @iamthezenmaster said:
How do you accept something like that is it possible? He says it will never ever lead to physical cheating but with the lies and hiding. Idk if I can believe him, and when staying with one that has lied and hidden things. How does one start the trusting process again. I feel he doesn't take it seriously and think it's no big deal because he hasn't physically cheated. I am working really hard researching looking for fun things for us to do to bandage the wounds that are open, but at times I feel he I don't get the same in return.
Gosh, @Emmalou - tough situation...so. He says this habit of his would never lead to his physically cheating on you. Even if you've never really meditated before, it would be something that could help you figure out just how realistic it is. Is it a promise? Do you feel he's expressing a deep down truth? And so on. And will your conclusion after you feel you've spent enough time meditating and pondering it a meaningful thing to you? I admire that you've taken a calm approach to a very emotional issue.
OP, maybe it's not enough to talk to him and tell him how you feel, and what you need for the relationship to work. (Though you should try, if you haven't already, since starting the thread.) Maybe at this point the only way to work things out will be to get marriage counseling.
He doesn't seem to understand that his continuing of the activity is driving you away and endangering the marriage. Though earlier, you say he stated that he did understand that. But he needs to know that your breaking point is near.
There are people who have affairs that don't involve physical touching. Emotional affairs can be much more damaging, for example, that someone having a one night stand.
He needs to understand how you are feeling, and someone needs to validate how you feel so he can't just saying you are overreacting. He's justifying he behaviors because there is no one there to say "no, she's right, you are hurting her and you shouldn't be doing this." That is where counseling comes in.
It isn't simply that you need to trust him. He's not made an effort to earn that trust. He needs to start by making an effort to understand your side, by apologizing for hurting you and by agreeing not to do things that harm you and your relationship. But to get to that point may well require someone else to intervene who is not emotionally caught up in what is going on.
I wonder what his motives are for doing the porn. I believe it is to get a 'high' just like drugs or alcohol. So how can he feel happy without the porn?
@Emmalou
Have you ever sat with him to watch those cam shows he's so into?
Maybe, if you shared that experience with him; approaching the experience with a non judgmental attitude. Completely opening yourself to the experience so that you can try to understand. Maybe he would be more open with you about it.
Then you have both shared the experience. Then you both can really talk about it. It may take many cam shows. But if you really want to understand his urges maybe you should try to experience that for yourself.
Even if the thought of it doesn't appeal to you initially. Shouldn't you at least try to understand by experiencing it with him yourself?
Sexuailty is natural. Masturbation is natural. It can be seen it many mammals. The Kangaroo, apes, walrus, dogs etc. The issues are the thoughts, intentions and fantasies which accompany the action. Not the action itself.
Iz plan!
As a mess myself, I am still awaiting a dukkha free life [won't be holding my breath for that].
The thing is this @Emmalou. We are often drawn to practice when a mess. Then when life is not so bad, we feel the messy life is something to engage with again.
How do you find the way to 'help yourself'?
I need all the tips and reminders available ...
... and now back to life, the universe and everything ...
This is the most appalling piece of advice and I have to say, is typical of a response from someone who can never hope to understand the devastating effect such actions, by a partner, can have on a woman.
The OP's morale is already low, her self-esteem and self-image shattered and her emotions disregarded and belittled by the one person she should be relying on for moral and emotional support.
To now try to convince her to join in with something - the one thing - she finds offensive, insulting, distasteful and humiliating, is merely rubbing salt in the wound and perpetuating her sadness.
This is not her problem.
This is not about her.
This is not for her to change or alter.
She is in emotional pain and distress, and needs her husband to listen, to her and to both validate and support her feelings.
It is not for you, @Emmalou, to learn to Trust.
It is for your husband to re-gain that trust.
Which is why I stated that you should study Buddhism with regard to using it as a self-supporting mechanism; to help YOU evolve, grow and understand your own emotions, attachment, sadness, frustration, anger and resentment, and how best to deal with those feelings.
But with your H.?
To be honest, the time for gentle persuasion is past, and you need to lay it, no-nonsense on the line.
What he is doing, insults you, belittles you betrays you and trivialises your relationship with him.
This may not be his intention at all, but tough luck, suck it up buddy, that's the EFFECT it's having on you.
Now, he can either blithely continue to insult, belittle betray and trivialise your emotions, and the effect he is having on you emotionally - or he can agree to investigate this addiction, and go to counselling with you.
THAT is his choice.
Which is it to be?
Because you, quite frankly, are not prepared to continue to feel insulted by the one person you made promises to. And who promised he would love, cherish and honour you.
His behaviour belies that.
How does he propose to change that?
Actually I've asked to be involved in the cam shows and sexting he's to embarrassed to, which makes me think it's deeper. I'm a very open girl I love him very much. It's just the lies and hiding. I love all cultures, and different ppl. What we share is beautiful, but I don't like being rejected being involved in what excites him when I'm open to him about everything that excites me. I know he loves me and he thinks I'm beautiful in every way. I'm thankful for everything he's done. I'm not a super hurt damaged girl who thinks less of herself because of this I know my strengths and weaknesses. I love myself. I'm hurt more by his selfishness, and being so hidden.
Well.
You don't choose C. It leaves you with option A, B and D.
The online cams is one thing. The sexting is another. Is he just sexting random people, like what phone sex lines were back in the day? Is this a random encounter that he pays for or something? Or at these people he knows in daily life? Because that is quite different than simply "porn." Watching is one thing, participating (to me) is another. But that's just the line I draw. If my husband wanted to watch, then whatever, it doesn't bother me and I'd join him. But talking to people would be a different level and I wouldn't be comfortable with that. But he would respect my boudaries and be willing to talk to me. The refusal to discuss it when you have opened and offered to do so is bothersome.
Sometimes that is the worst part of anything, to try to be open and join or talk to someone about something and they want you to be excluded. If he's unwilling to talk about it, you have limited options. Have you told him what you told us about how it makes you feel? What did he say? For things to get repaired and move on, he has to be straightforward, and if he's refusing to be there isn't much you can do to force him. You could also go to counseling yourself and get help for knowing how to talk to him, maybe if you established with a counselor he would eventually join you.
@Emmalou
Have you actually seen the types of shows he's watching?
He may be embarassed, not so much because he watches these shows. But because of what happens in them.
He may be afraid that you might be appalled and reject him if you saw what he was watching.
It's certainly a possibility.
I've talked to him, we'll just have to see, at this point I'm very exhausted with this. I feel like a broken record. I feel it's best I focus on my art work and my mind.
Good luck! He is going to need to want to stop for this to be successful.......
Thank you. At this point I'll let nature take its course. Kind of excited about it lol. Soon I will have an answer and the pain will be over either way.
What first drew you to Buddhism, @Emmalou , and what kind of routine have you established for yourself to practice what you have so far learnt...? Routine, rhythm and habit are sometimes good things at the beginning of the Path....
Are there some books you've read that you'd like to refer to?
This thread will also be quite useful to you.....
Could you tell us what you mean by this.....?
Yes, sure. I'm sorry, but the advice from some male members on this forum defies belief.....
Talk about simply not understanding the female Psyche..... Where is an :angry rolleyes: when you want one - !?
There are times when a scholarly and studious approach to any issue is inappropriate.
You can spout literature, quotes and Buddhist suttas all you like, they are of no use to someone whose leg is actually broken...
First heal the wound and stop the pain, then talk about prevention.
Dalai lama qoute " Don't let behaviour of others to destroy your inner piece ". But i was reluctant to say anything because i was never in any such relation. Here other is your husband is very rude to say and i'm sorry for that.
As far as Buddhism is considered this situation is teaching you about 'impermanence' and how clinging to something leads to sorrows and depression
Now you need to prioritize things, someone you care about is ill so take care of him. And give some time to settle mind to think properly. Watching porn seems less.problamistic but having interaction with those people looks worrysome. Are you giving time to your husband?
I believe in conservative kind of.lifestyle where one do not go after physical relation without marriage.
@dhammarato While I agree with the idea we need to be accountable for our feelings and reactions, the precepts are also there to help guide us in how to interact with others. It doesn't mean we can behave in whatever manner we choose and then tell the person "well it's your fault for feeling that way, I didn't do anything wrong."
She has already stated she tried to join and talk to her partner and he continues to hide whatever he is watching and will not share it with her.
Considering the state of enslaved children and women in the business of prostitution in Thailand, I don't think it's exactly the best example to follow. There are going to be cultural differences in this group because we come from all over the world. But simply telling everyone else to accept the way you do it and join in isn't necessarily the most skillful way to manage things. There may be a lot of Buddhists in Thailand, but prostitution is one of the businesses that Buddha recommended against-the traffic of humans. Though, like any thing we can twist things to read the way we want them to read out of our attachments. There are far more women and children who are exploited for prostitution than there are women who completely enter it voluntarily. Exploiting people is not really in keeping in line with Buddha's recommendations of how to treat people.
Also, I think the way TNH describes a more modern way of the 5 precepts that IMO is more along the lines of what Buddha would describe if he were here today. With a focus on love, kindness and compassion. None of with prostitution and the porn industry exactly focus on.
"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I am committed to cultivating responsibility and learning ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. Knowing that sexual desire is not love, and that sexual activity motivated by craving always harms myself as well as others, I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without true love and a deep, long-term commitment made known to my family and friends. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct. Seeing that body and mind are one, I am committed to learning appropriate ways to take care of my sexual energy and cultivating loving kindness, compassion, joy and inclusiveness – which are the four basic elements of true love – for my greater happiness and the greater happiness of others. Practicing true love, we know that we will continue beautifully into the future."
Did you miss the part where what he's doing makes * him *feel bad? The OP's hubs, himself, has identified it as a problem for him, let alone the both of them.
I honestly don't know what to do at this point. My motivation is gone my heart aches not being dramatic. I just believe it may have already been broken and don't know if it's repairable
The truth is I have no vehicle. I have my brothers in Dallas, but I'm scared to go. I'm scared of getting out there working the fear of not being appreciated is haunting me. I know as soon as I get to my brothers I'm going to have to work really hard, and I'm scared I'm to weak from all of this. I haven't checked on my own father because of the damage. It's my own fault I am honestly sitting in my own sorrow. The husband is always around and all I see is lie and pain when I see him
The relationship not my heart I mean
No need for the insults... I'm not asking anyone to fix this. I know I have to do some soul searching.... That's why I came here
You speak the word, but you don't live it. Your behavior is not kind. I do not have a bad attitude about it. nor am I control freak
A whole load of patronising, condescending holier-than-thou crap.
Oh ok, that's enough.
So just for my own understanding what is the problem? Is it web cams and sexting as going further than masturbation? Or do you suppose women object to their man masturbating? For me I am not against my woman masturbating if that's what she enjoys.
The issue is the lies, and hiding. I know he loves me I'm not trying to change him at all. I like to watch porn and enjoy myself at times, I'm just upset with the hiding and lies, because I don't care about that he knows that. That's why I'm confused.
I feel a lot of people are making a lot of unfair assumptions about me. I love my hubby it's not the acts he does that hurts me it's the lies. I'm not trying to change him. We can't keep are hands off of each other we are very active. Love and peace
From what you've said, this could be what's going on. It could also be that he's secretly afraid that you'll be upset by him being aroused by the sight of another woman (or man). You might want to ask him if this is the case. If you're truly ok with watching these types of programs with him, you might want to open a dialogue with him by telling him what you like about them. It seems you both love each other, there just is some communication lacking. You might be surprised how honest and open you both can be once the ice is broken.
Have you told him this bluntly and if so, what is his response?
Looking beyond the subject matter, it is a straightforward premise - you do not accept that lies are compatible with the format of relationship you seek.
It is perhaps too vague to say lie as in any relationship, people have their version of reality - maybe more specifically it is the knowledge that one party wilfully pursues their personal interest ahead of the relationship interest and how far they are willing and / or able to go to protect that position.
This could be an issue of misunderstanding and an opportunity to grow closer together or it could be a fundamental incompatibility.
Successive approximations toward a goal, or in other words, "start small and build."
Can you create a situation where the stakes are low (so the pressure is low) and he can choose to tell a difficult truth? Be creative (I suspect you are probably very creative -- use it)! Then, of course, be sure to reward him. If truthfulness is what is most important to you, more so than the sexual distractions, make sure you SAY that. Many many times.
There is an easy cultural justification for "little white lies" as if they are harmless and sometimes even kind. But we don't have a comparable crutch of conscience for "little white clandestine sex outlet." So if I were in his shoes (or underwear) I might assume that you were greatly bothered by the porn, and the implied thoughts of infidelity. Trust me, he will not figure it out, no matter how strongly you feel. If porn is sort-of OK compared to total truthfulness/openness, divulge everythingness, you will have to say so. And the more directly but softly and lovingly, the more likely you are to be successful.
So, TELL HIM the real goal, give him an opportunity to progress toward it, and reward him along the way.
I have dealt with a somewhat related situation, not the lying, but someone needed me to tell a very difficult truth about themselves. One that in their experience frequently leads to rejection in even a good relationship. It is quite possible he has desires that aren't considered "normal" or "vanilla" and he is afraid to share them. It might be that he is not lying to deceive you but to protect himself and in his perception, your relationship. These types of sexual desires can run quite a variance, some being not so difficult to comprehend, some being very difficult. If you think you can handle whatever he might throw at you, then you should encourage him to be straight forward, to trust you. And allow him to speak openly and completely before you comment on what he has to say. That level of trust brings a relationship to a whole different level because the person with the "secret" has to be completely vulnerable and it is not easy.
For starters, you stop trying to change him. This is psychologically impossible, and in terms of Buddhism, it is the wrong focus.
Buddhism is not about changing your world. It is about learning how to open up to and live IN the moment .. and then relaxing into it.
Rather than change what is happening in your life, you change how YOU are happening in your life.
This takes years and years to start to get somewhere ... because we are all very attached to the idea that we would be happy if we could JUST get things to go the way we want. Unfortunately, life rarely cooperates, and there is never an end to wanting. It is the cause of our unhappiness.
A cognitive behavioral psychologist would tell you that your stress is caused by your interpretation of the circumstances, and by what you tell yourself about it.
This really is not very different from what Buddha was talking about.
If you are stressed you have to start looking to see what you are telling yourself that is causing that stress. Touch it emotionally, and then relax into it.
This is so easy to talk about .. so very easy to DO in practice. Buddhism helps ... and the more years you have been doing Buddhism the easier it becomes.
Relationships are just about the hardest thing we will ever do ... no one and no relationship will ever be perfect, and nothing has the potential to hurt as much as a relationship does. We unconsciously pick those who will bring out our childhood pain and force us to deal with it. So making a relationship work depends on how well you work with yourself.
Which gets us back to Buddhism ....
Well, it sounds as though it's time for you to put your foot down, OP. Have you discussed with him his getting counseling to deal with his addiction? If not, the time to do so is now. Make it clear you can't take it anymore, and that he should make an appointment to begin counseling in the next week or two.
And figure out what options you have in life; where to live, job (I assume you're employed?), etc. This may sound depressing, but believe me, if you stay in a miserable relationship, you'll be way more depressed. Avoiding standing up for yourself, and staying in what amounts to an emotionally abusive situation, will take you down a very dark path. Meditating and being a good Buddhist will not make an intolerable situation tolerable, especially when it involves the next 18 years of your life, until your child grows up. Seriously, you (or anyone) would think that withdrawing, and working on art and Buddhist practice, will tide you over for the next 18 years, every day, day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year? Think about that.
To say nothing of the question of whether it's sound to raise a child with such a father. What's he going to do, go up to the attic or down to the basement to watch his porn and do his thing, hiding from his own child? Would he even care? What if a curious 8-year-old who's learned to use computers at school, finds daddy's porn?
You're the child's mother. It's your job to protect that child and to give it a healthy home environment to grow up in happily. Don't abrogate your responsibility toward your child.
Perhaps you could consider getting a few counseling sessions yourself, to help clarify to yourself what you need to do.