Nirvana
Mingle
Veteran
Hi once again NB. Got a topic here which for once is actually Buddhist related.
That topic is Nirvana and how one reaches it. I am under the understanding that suffering/or dissatisfaction is caused by desire. Yes? Or rather a symptom of desire?
To achieve Nirvana a state which frees one of suffering you must not desire. (I'm guessing I'm over simplifying this)
Anyway, it is impossible to be free of desire though, to live is to desire. Even a plant moves towards the sun. If we were to relinguish all attachments and material possessions we would still be left desiring food, shelter, water and love. So to achieve Nirvana we must die it seems.
Anyway I feel like I'm missing something here so this is why I ask. Care to enlighten me? I look forward to your responses.
Comments
Perhaps "this" will give you some food for thought @Mingle
To be freed from desire does not mean that you do not experience desires, it means that you are not ruled and controlled by them. What do you do with your desires? Let them chase you down the street like a pack of wild dogs, or teach them obedience?
What @Fosdick said.
We don't touch much on Nirvana with my teacher so my understanding could well be off. But I don't think enlightenment/awakening is the same as Nirvana? If I remember right it was explained to me more as Nirvana is the final/highest state where your sense of self is completely eliminated. That it is a state of being. But that enlightenment/awakening is the event that occurs that brings one to that place. I have always kind of thought of it as, a person can become awake/enlightened at any point. But that Nirvana is beyond that, and perhaps does only happen at or near death. Perhaps Buddha was within Nirvana but Echartt Tolle is only awake. I guess to me there is a difference but perhaps I am not getting my finger on it quite.
But one can most certainly rid oneself of the attachment to desire, particularly the outcome of it. I kind of get the sense (for no good reason, really) that those who are awake do not have quite the same human needs as regular people, including the need to eat or sleep or even that strong desire to stay alive at all costs.
"When one mistakenly "desires" not to desire - one will find that this only adds fuel to desire's perpetual fire!
However, if one can detach the self from desire's flow-it will burn itself out, if one dares to let go!"
It's a paradox of sorts... @Mingle ... Desire & Aversion are two sides of the same coin...So time to hit the cushion
"Samsara is nirvana and nirvana is samsara"
The Noble Eightfold Path, The Middle Way, the way towards the end of suffering (nirvana), only exists in samsara.
The human realm, the path, and staying in the playing field is required.
There are different ways of looking at this, but I find that noticing the transience of experience is very helpful. The sense of stuff just coming and going, not having to take it so seriously and personally, the sense of being more spacious, letting go, not clinging so much to current conditions. Being content, rather than continually wanting. A sense of freedom. And the ability to appreciate the richness and complexity of each moment.
I wouldn't worry too much about "Nirvana", just do some practice and see where it leads you. It's a fascinating journey, and one I thoroughly recommend.
I reckon that if a person has reached the state of nibbana then they're probably not on a blogsite (but given that I'm often wrong, I could easily be wrong this time too).
What would we know about not living in samsara? We can probably tell you lots about life in samsara but I guess you probably have a good handle on that one!
That topic is Nirvana and how one reaches it. I am under the understanding
that suffering/or dissatisfaction is caused by desire. Yes?
Yes.It's caused by craving.
To achieve Nirvana a state which frees one of suffering you must not desire?
Yes.
Anyway, it is impossible to be free of desire though.
No it's not countless Arahants have done it.
So to achieve Nirvana we must die it seems.
Yes.The ego has to die.
It's not something to grieve about.Ego didn't exist in the first place.
If you follow the eight noble path.Cultivate it.Gradually, the ego will naturally and organically dismantle.
You see Enlightenment doesn't happen to anyone.It occurs to no one.There's nobody to be enlightened in the first place.
Nobody behind our eyes.There is nobody home.
Think about Samsara as a pit.The Eight noble Path as a Ladder.You can't just say to your self i will stop desiring anything.Let go let go let go.I won't attach to anything.Be free.
Well your not.Your stuck in the pit.
You need to attach to the ladder (eight noble path) and climb out.
You need to use the Ego/Desire/Will.(Because your stuck with it until enlightenment ) direct your energy towards cultivating the eight noble path and by itself insight will arise and dismantle the ego/desire/cravings/attachments.
In other words your using something that your going to get rid off later.
This is the most helpful way of looking at samsara I've seen. Thanks.
My humble opinion, @Mingle, is that what you'll ultimately be missing is the landscape if your eyes are too fixed on the goal.
Being rooted in Samsara does not rule out occasional glimpses into Nirvana from time to time.
The joy is in the process.
They say that the zen that you find at the top of the mountain is the zen that you bring with you.
@DhammaDragon says, "They say that the zen that you find at the top of the mountain is the zen that you bring with you."
Ooh, I like that.