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Dog behaviour Thread: Long Post.
federica
Seeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
Ok, guys: Long Post.
As some of you will know, I am taking a course to enable me to become a Dog behaviourist.
let me just give you a brief outline:
I recently attended a 'Dog Listener' Foundation Course here in the UK, which was quite a financial investment for me. I made a commitment to pursuing this career quite some time ago, and had to put funds aside in order to fulfil my own personal desire. (Let's please not go into Desire, Attachment, Clinging and Grasping here, for now!!:poke:
)
I don't need to go into detail about how precarious my financial situation has been for a while. You all already know it's been a bit of an uphill struggle. (And though there is some light at the end of the tunnel, there is some uncertainty still remaining, with it possibly being an oncoming train....)
But I digress.
Whilst the Foundation Course was to the greater part, enormous fun, I actually learnt nothing from it that I could not have gleaned from a book. And indeed, I had done so already. So it was very much the same as going to a restaurant and enjoying an identical meal to one I had enjoyed previously.
An Advanced Course followed immediately (there are others fixed for during the year) and it costs almost double that of the Foundation Course.
I was unable to commit to this one, but wanted to perhaps arrange for a subsequent participation.
However, some factors have dissuaded me from following up on this:
ONE:
Having spoken to a fellow aspiring dog behaviourist who managed to attend this Advanced Course, I find again, that the majority of the material is available elsewhere. At a much reduced financial output!
TWO:
The Organiser was extremely insistent on pointing out that anyone taking both courses would have to submit to further 'Testing and Appraisal' (more financial outlay)and to being included on a register, whereupon any clients this new member would advise, would be sent a feedback questionnaire by the Organiser. All responses would serve to help the Organiser decide whether the member was sutably adept to hold the Official title of Dog listener. This title is only bestowed after 2 years of practising. And then it seems it is given to the very few "Chosen Few"! It was all put forward in a very - Masonic - kind of way!! Exclusivity was emphasised, and the talk, far from being inspirational, was actually presented in an off-putting manner....
I subsequently discovered that the Certificates/Diplomas/Awards/Titles bestowed by this company or organisation, have absolutely no accreditation or qualification value whatsoever, and mean completely nothing under British Law. They have absolutely no academic or business value at all.
I could be 18, have never owned a dog, and I could legitimately set myself up as a Dog behaviourist.
However, I have now spoken to an educational establishment here in Ascot, Berkshire, that offers courses in Animal care that do carry accreditation and can be used to support further study and dedication to Domestic Pet care and understanding.
There are also other UK-based associations which offer a great deal of support and guidance to anyone wishing to make a career of Animal husbandry. I am in touch with all of them.
Have a look here, here and here.
I have now found that opinions about the company I did the course with, are varied.
I reserve judgement, and will not discuss my views on open forum.
suffice to say my views are a little 'jaded'....
However, the Administrative Secretary of the College in Ascot, is of the opinion that within the next 2 years or so, legislation in the UK will change regarding this kind of career, and that some official register and system will be put into place, requiring all those wishing to continue or pursue a career in Dog behaviour, to submit to evaluation and assessment. About time too!!
The Organiser of the course I attended will be just as obliged to submit to this, as the so-called aspiring, dogless 18-year-old! To date, there is nothing to state that they have done anything by way of officially recognised training!
I am finally getting to my point.
In order to successfully complete any training requirements, I will need feedback from Dog owners, whose pets have some behavioural problems, and who have approached me for assistance.
These could be on a face-to-face basis, or by correspondence.
The snag is that, anyone coming to me for guidance and advice, would have to submit a written assessment of the benefits resulting from putting my counsel into practice.
This would mean submission of name and contact details.
Please let me clarify:
I am willing and able to help anyone at all by answering any questions and points, regardless.
But if you would be prepared to submit a written letter, then please understand I might be asking you to provide personal details that you may not wish anyone to have.
I have no desire to breach anyone's right to privacy.
But I have to gather a portfolio of bona-fide responses, that might need to be submitted and subsequently checked for authenticity.
I will still be more than happy to answer any and every question, query or plea for help.
Aiding me by giving me a written document in return is entirely at your discretion, and completely your choice.
Thank you all for reading all of this!! :bigclap:
As some of you will know, I am taking a course to enable me to become a Dog behaviourist.
let me just give you a brief outline:
I recently attended a 'Dog Listener' Foundation Course here in the UK, which was quite a financial investment for me. I made a commitment to pursuing this career quite some time ago, and had to put funds aside in order to fulfil my own personal desire. (Let's please not go into Desire, Attachment, Clinging and Grasping here, for now!!:poke:
)I don't need to go into detail about how precarious my financial situation has been for a while. You all already know it's been a bit of an uphill struggle. (And though there is some light at the end of the tunnel, there is some uncertainty still remaining, with it possibly being an oncoming train....)
But I digress.
Whilst the Foundation Course was to the greater part, enormous fun, I actually learnt nothing from it that I could not have gleaned from a book. And indeed, I had done so already. So it was very much the same as going to a restaurant and enjoying an identical meal to one I had enjoyed previously.
An Advanced Course followed immediately (there are others fixed for during the year) and it costs almost double that of the Foundation Course.
I was unable to commit to this one, but wanted to perhaps arrange for a subsequent participation.
However, some factors have dissuaded me from following up on this:
ONE:
Having spoken to a fellow aspiring dog behaviourist who managed to attend this Advanced Course, I find again, that the majority of the material is available elsewhere. At a much reduced financial output!
TWO:
The Organiser was extremely insistent on pointing out that anyone taking both courses would have to submit to further 'Testing and Appraisal' (more financial outlay)and to being included on a register, whereupon any clients this new member would advise, would be sent a feedback questionnaire by the Organiser. All responses would serve to help the Organiser decide whether the member was sutably adept to hold the Official title of Dog listener. This title is only bestowed after 2 years of practising. And then it seems it is given to the very few "Chosen Few"! It was all put forward in a very - Masonic - kind of way!! Exclusivity was emphasised, and the talk, far from being inspirational, was actually presented in an off-putting manner....
I subsequently discovered that the Certificates/Diplomas/Awards/Titles bestowed by this company or organisation, have absolutely no accreditation or qualification value whatsoever, and mean completely nothing under British Law. They have absolutely no academic or business value at all.
I could be 18, have never owned a dog, and I could legitimately set myself up as a Dog behaviourist.
However, I have now spoken to an educational establishment here in Ascot, Berkshire, that offers courses in Animal care that do carry accreditation and can be used to support further study and dedication to Domestic Pet care and understanding.
There are also other UK-based associations which offer a great deal of support and guidance to anyone wishing to make a career of Animal husbandry. I am in touch with all of them.
Have a look here, here and here.
I have now found that opinions about the company I did the course with, are varied.
I reserve judgement, and will not discuss my views on open forum.
suffice to say my views are a little 'jaded'....
However, the Administrative Secretary of the College in Ascot, is of the opinion that within the next 2 years or so, legislation in the UK will change regarding this kind of career, and that some official register and system will be put into place, requiring all those wishing to continue or pursue a career in Dog behaviour, to submit to evaluation and assessment. About time too!!
The Organiser of the course I attended will be just as obliged to submit to this, as the so-called aspiring, dogless 18-year-old! To date, there is nothing to state that they have done anything by way of officially recognised training!
I am finally getting to my point.
In order to successfully complete any training requirements, I will need feedback from Dog owners, whose pets have some behavioural problems, and who have approached me for assistance.
These could be on a face-to-face basis, or by correspondence.
The snag is that, anyone coming to me for guidance and advice, would have to submit a written assessment of the benefits resulting from putting my counsel into practice.
This would mean submission of name and contact details.
Please let me clarify:
I am willing and able to help anyone at all by answering any questions and points, regardless.
But if you would be prepared to submit a written letter, then please understand I might be asking you to provide personal details that you may not wish anyone to have.
I have no desire to breach anyone's right to privacy.
But I have to gather a portfolio of bona-fide responses, that might need to be submitted and subsequently checked for authenticity.
I will still be more than happy to answer any and every question, query or plea for help.
Aiding me by giving me a written document in return is entirely at your discretion, and completely your choice.
Thank you all for reading all of this!! :bigclap:
0
Comments
Don't forget that pointers you gave me some years ago have been put into action in the intervening time and the improvement you saw in his behaviour on your last visit was down to this.
So put me on the list of referees for a start.
And can I just add that the organisation you went to, put your faith in and payed so much money to are a bunch of crooks. there - I am not bound to right-speaking, I'm a witch
Palzang
Dogs remarkably, are far more adept and profficient at living in the Now and enjoying the moment. They have no hang-ups, baggage or agenda, unless we ourselves load them up with it....
But I do get strange looks when drinking my tea - out of a saucer......:tonguec:
To twist a saying somewhat,
"If there's a frown on a dog's face, you can bet your bottom-dollar a human being's put it there!"
Yes, I've found that - I had to stop humping visitors' legs when they arrived - it made a bad impression
Palzang
Now that we've domesticated the canine and made the species dependent upon us, I very strongly feel we should do all we can to understand and treat them properly in order to lessen their suffering. Since we're all capable of doing it right, as Cesar shows over and over, it's the least we can do. There really is nothing in this world like a happy, well socialized doggy, is there? *Woof Woof*
So deciding that I am Titch's Alpha and it's my duty to protect him, I took the opportunity of doing a pretty good impression of an Alpha Bitch in attack mode (easy, imagine PMT with added attitude). I dropped my voice til it was a growl, leaned forward til I was on face level with the other dogs (but not within biting distance, I am crazy but not THAT crazy) and told them in no uncertain terms what I would do to them if they came any nearer.
Even my own dog was pretty impressed. The other two pushed off and we carried on our walk with Titch going "S'my mum, that is. S'my mum - good isn't she?"
He now knows he doesn't need to protect me and it has underlined his position in our wee pack - Mum is boss and they will get in line
Obviously every situation is different, and you have to make a snap judgement at times on how to react. And with 2 dogs, it's difficult to know what the outcome will be.
But it's thankfully very rare that a really vicious attack will take place, although I'm not saying it doesn't happen. usually, the dog will have escaped its owner or it's living space. it's unusual for a dog to be practically rabid and frankly, dangerous, when it's out and about with a leash.
There are exceptions, I know....
This is why, on the pretense as it were, of having a previous back injury (which I did have) I take a proper trekking stick with me, on my walks with my dog. It provides an excellent 'blocking' tool, whilst I wait for the poor hapless owner to come breathlessly panting up, and gasping,
"It's alright, s/he only wants to play...."
Palzang
I love "recycled" jokes!
Palzang
we either have longer memories....
or I'm going senile and repeating myself.....!!
Dog Bites
The immediate reaction - as with the Dangerous Dogs' Act - is destructive but I wonder whether the problem lies far more with the fact that people are allowed to 'own' dogs without any sort of check or limit. Children have to be sent to school and socialised. It is very discounting that we expect dogs to fit into our increasingly urbanised world without giving them the training necessary.
My own, admittedly limited, experience of living with dogs suggests to me that they are naturally trainable and that if the example they are given of interpersonal behaviour is abusive, they will be drawn into the cycle of abuse.
I can't believe it's been over 2 months since I've been here. How time flies! It will take me a long time to catch up on reading all the threads. And I'd like to say hello to all the new ppl who have joined since I was here last.
I thought this would be the perfect thread for me to say hello again since dogs are the reason I have not been here. Right before John started cemo and radiation last summer he felt that I needed an occupation that I would be able to support myself (in case the worst happened) and that I would love. Sooooooooo I have been raising Miniature Australian Shepherds since June. It keeps me very busy. Pretty much 24-7. I don't have a huge kennel or anything like that I'm just considered a Licensed Hobby Breeder by the state that I live in. Missouri has very very strict rules for dog kennels, which I think is wonderful.
So, Fede I would be glad to help you out anytime. You'd really be helping me. I'm always needing advice on my young dogs behavior.
My brother trains working dogs and his advice to me was to watch Cesar Milan. He thinks he is a genius! So I've been watching Cesar Milan and using his advice and I will say it has worked well in most cases. Being pack leader at my house is a very important thing.....lol
That sounds like a great vocation, I hope you do really well!
I don't need to mention how important it is to carefully vet everyone wanting to buy a puppy off you.. I'm sure you have very strict procedures in place already...
Cesar Millan is wonderful, but (cunningly, in my book) he doesn't reveal all his secrets or techniques in his programmes.. Let's face it, he usually runs three different stories/dogs, in one programme... that's 20 minutes each, and trust me, although some aspects of he technique take moments, I'm telling you straight, he probably never spends less than around 2 - 3 hours with each case! And then he often does a follow-up....!
So whilst watching his stuff is absolutely great, I happen to know that actually getting him on a call-out would be - shall we say - financially challenging....?
But he is a great guy, and I would love to meet him!
The only thing I personally disagree with, are these electronic devices, and these spiked choke-chain collars.
They're planning to make it illegal to use them in this country, because - you know what? As a deterrent, on their own, as a means of control - They Don't Work.
In fairness, I have only seen Cesar Millan use an electronic collar once, and here were all kinds of warnings to viewers about NEVER using one without professional guidance or advice... and he used it to stop a dog chasing moving tyres... the dog had already been injured on more than one occasion, blinded in one eye, and the owners were at their wits' end...so as that kind of measure, it worked. But they - and spiked choke chains - in the hands of the un-trained, un-initiated and un-informed - are just plain sadistic....
Any questions, Deb, feel free to jump in, and we'll see what we can do!
Excellent to see you back!
How's things with you now?
Give us an update in the 'How was your day?' thread...!
Come on everyone Hip Hip :cheer:
I just did my best....
:wavey:
That said, I've never had the slightest urge to have a dog as a pet - or any other kind of pet, for that matter. Strange, eh?
Palzang
I guess we are all different. I can't imagine a dog not in my life. Only once did I not have a dog and it only lasted about 2 months. Couldn't stand it......life just seemed strange without one by my side.
I think it is very cool that you help with rescue dogs. We have also rescued dogs in the past and I now do Aussie Rescue. (Aussie is the nick name for the Australian Shepherds that I raise.)
Go Fede........how very cool!!!!! Yeah!!!!
I do have comments to your post and I'm sure I'll have questions but in a bit of a hurry just now so I will post again later on this thread and the how was your day thread..
Thanks guys
Deb
But Palzang - that is admirable - I used to rescue dogs when we lived in Brittany but having to take them to the SPA because we couldn't keep them ALL used to break my heart. So we just homed them for a couple of weeks, worked out their vices and viabilities and handed them over with a detailed report.
Fede,
Just wanted to tell you that I have a very strict code I go on when selling puppies. I ask lots of questions and I go with my gut feelings. I know that may not always be fair to ppl. But you can tell a dog person... How they interact with puppies and dogs. What questions that they ask me etc.... I also do references on ppl I'm not sure about. I have turned a few ppl down. This may be the way I make my living now but I will not at the expense of my dogs. They are what comes first not the money.
The spiked choke collars are not allowed at my home. I do not believe in anything about them.
The electronic collars I do not own but am not totally against them. My brother uses them when working his working dogs when they are a long distance away from him. ( he has trained dogs for many years) but he is very experienced and his dogs are very happy, well adjusted dogs.
I saw the show that you are talking about that the Dog Whisperer used the electronic collar. I do agree that it was the right thing to do at the point those ppl were. Other wise the dog was going to get killed I'm afraid. I felt that they used very little effert or pain to the dog and got there point across.
I also do understand that way more goes on with the D.W. show than what we see on TV. When my brother told me to start watching it we talked about that in detail before I ever did.
I think what you are doing Fede is very cool. Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!
What is your basic philosophy on training dogs? Is your training like the The D.W. or do you do basic training like sit, down and stay and work with behavior problems? What techniques do you use?
They're all necessary, of course... it's important to have good control over your dog(s) in order to be able to rely on their obedience if anything needs to be brought under control...
But I'm predominantly focussed on helping people understand their dogs on a psychological level...
I'm of the opinion that the two work closely together... in order to gain the dog's trust and co-operation with commands such as the ones above, in my opinion, it's invaluable to also know the whys and wherefores.
A lot of people I speak to, do not realise the programmes entail a lot more than they see...I wasn't implying you did too.. in fact, I had no doubt you did. But I'm sure you must have met some 'dumb' ones now and then....!
The best one was when I was explaining about 'gesture eating'... "So...how often do I have to eat to keep my dog happy?" :wtf:
I think what you are doing is awesome!
So good to see you back, Deb!!
Barking.........is an issue. With this many dogs it is really hard to control the barking.
We just built a very large exercise yard. I'm thinking that that might help. They get a lot of exercise but I'm think still not enough.
I'm guessing they are barking out of boredom? My dogs are 2 dogs to a 10x20 run. Puppies a few more.
Any thoughts?
You don't tell me how many dogs you've got, but if the numbers keep changing, due to re-homing or selling, this de-stabilises the pack.
But the pack only feels de-stabilised if there's no clear leader to begin with... and if the dogs have established amongst themselves who the pack leader is, and that dog then disappears, it's critical to them.
On top of that, if you have a group of dogs that have established their own hierarchy - and then you breed and couple the dogs that they don't necessarily consider to be the pack leaders, this too, for them, is an absolute nightmare and taboo situation.
The only dogs - or wolves - in the Pack, who breed or have a right to breed, are the two Alphas....
2 dogs to a run?
Are they both males and both females? (because I know that bitches only come into season twice a year)
If you permit a mix, how do you know you're putting the two Alphas together...?
There's a lot to consider.....
Tell me a little bit more about the set-up because so far, Ive given you facts, but insofar as your situation might be, it's all hypothesis....
I have 10 females. I run the females together. Most of the dogs I purchased are in two's. Example
2 females out of the same litter. (These are adult dogs that have been together all their lives) I have 3 females out of the same litter and then 5 females that are not related. The females that are related I run together. So I guess in the one pen their are 3 females. Most of my males are in a pen alone. When a female in heat comes up I put her in the pen with the male. Unless both females come in heat and I'm plaining to breed them both then I put the male in with the females.
I do have some young females that I have kept back (which means I raised them and instead of selling them I'm keeping them for future breeding.)
ok, As for my alfa female. I know who she is......but thinking on this, I have a couple of other females that are very dominant. Don't know that if they are more dominant than th alfa female. And they are not in with the female I would consider the alfa female so I don't know if they would fight for that spot or not.
Now, As for my males.... They are all young and have just bred for the 1st time this year. I'm not sure who would be the alfa male. I have one male who is pretty big, and he barks less than the others. Maybe him........I have a few small males who seem to have the Napoleon complex in a big way.
The one that is the worst with the Napoleon complex I have just put in with 2 females to keep him calmer. They are not alfa females and he seems to be happier with them and acts up less...They are not in heat at this time. I just wanted to see if we would have less fighting thru the fence. Now that I think about it.......He was beside the large quiet male that might be the alfa male and he was wanting the position. The problem is with that is if they ever got in the same pen the big male could kill the small male in a heart beat. Don't know that he would, just saying he could with the size difference.
This does get very complicated .............The anarchy of their world.... And by breeding the dogs that are not just the alfa's I'm causing all kinds of issues.........hmmmmmmmmmm
interesting.........
this causes me to have a ton of quesitions...............
would it be better by pm or here?
EDIT NOTE:
Of course I'm forgetting the cardinal rule...
The important question is not - and never is:"What does it mean when the dog(s) do *this*...?"
The vital question is:
"What do I do now?"
The bottom line is that if you take control and assume the position of the Alpha member, then the hierarchy issue in the pack as it exists, will disappear.
But when I'm inside the house and not out with them that's when they bark etc... How do I stay the Alfa when I'm not with them? How do you keep that same control when not with them?
when you open the gates to walk them, what happens?
What happens at feeding time?
Do they live outside all of the time?
Do you consider any of these animals your pets, and are close to them, or are they, at the end of the day, a means of supporting you?
Please don't think I am being critical or judgemental with that last question.
I'm merely trying to get a complete picture of your relationship wih the dogs.....
I have just come back from a meeting of a carers' group. One of the facilitators cares for her husband who has suffered, for many years, from a crippling depressive illness (diagnosis has been a puzzle, even now). They have had a dog for many years who died s little while ago. After much soul-searching, they have got another. The husband chose it. A springer spaniel!!! Within weeks the husband has become more active, more 'together', functioning again. There is no doubt that the spaniel is the Alpha: this morning, the dog barked at 4.30 a.m., once. Husband - both are chronic insomniacs - was out of bed and dressed before you could say "Canine Capers", and off out onto the Common for a dawn walk. Springer spaniel as anti-depressant. Great!
fede...how are you in assisting with Livestock Guardians? I have two Great Pyrenees and they are eating the eggs that our chickens are laying! I also need the younger dog to figure out that she needs to protect the chickens and guineas from the hawks that try to eat them. Are you interested in helping me with these issues?
It's good to see everyone on here!
Kim
Yey Yogamama - lovely to see you back again - me too!
Well, you could try 'aversion therapy' with the pyrenees... put eggs in front of them, and when they try to grab them, yell 'no'! sharply, whilst you simultaneously shake a small plastic bottle, filled with gravel, next to them... keep doing this until they get the message... touch egg.... bad!!
The whole point is of course, catching the animal in the act. There's absolutely no point whatsoever in getting mad at them, or chastising them after the event.... they won't get it.
By actually presenting them with the opportunity, you are in effect, creating the act and catching them at it....
As with the younger dog.....
I don't know how you'd begin to explain the difference between the animals...(This is a chicken - Guard! This is a Hawk - don't guard!)... This is intensive training, and doesn't happen over night.
You may like to contact a Police dog handler and ask them how they get their dogs to obey certain commands. I have to admit, shame-faced, I can't offer any more than that right now.....I'm into dog 'psychology', more than 'training'....
I believe they see me as the Alfa because.........
When they 1st came to live with me was at the same time John was starting cemo and radiation. I was in a stressed weakened state and the 7 adult females and 4 young males that came did not see me as the alfa at all. They barked when I was with them, tried to run over me, jumped on me etc... I spoke to my brother on this issue and we talked about them not seeing me as the alfa because of my mental state. That is when he suggested that I start watching the D.W. and that I need to take control.
I started watching the DW and started using his suggestions. The dogs now do not bark when I am with them. They do not run over me and and they do not jump on me.
Feeding time is quiet and controlled. We are having an issue with 4 month old puppies that I have kept but we are working on being calm while being fed.
When I open a gate they do not try to run out. They appear happy and excited. I talk to them quietly and calmly and they quiet down. When I walk thru a gate with them I walk 1st.
Most of the dogs do live outside full time. That is how they lived before I purchased them. When a female is ready to have puppies she is brought in and lives inside for a 1-2 weeks before her pups are born and she lives inside until they are 6 weeks old. All of the females begin to wean there pups before this time and seem to be glad to go back out to stay at this time. All females live with a buddy.
I do have a few females that live inside full time because that is what they like and I'm fine with that.
I believe that all of these animals are my pets. They all have unique personalities and I love each one for who they are.
I have been told that I am not tough enough to be a dog breeder. I feel that if I ever get to the point that these animals only mean a pay check to me that I should not be in this business.
I do not AI females and I do not do forced breedings. A male and female are put in a 10x20 foot pen together. If the breeding takes place fine if not fine. If a female would not breed after 2 heats then I would give her to a good pet home. I find pet homes for pups that are not of show or breeding quality. I do not put puppies down because they are not perfect or have an issue of some kind. I am straight forward with the people who buy or are given a puppy so that they know all issues with the dog if there are any.
All of my dogs are health checked regularly. The welfare of my dogs comes 1st no matter what. I have a vet on call 24-7. I can either take them to his office or he will come to me. He is very caring and is wonderful with the dogs. They all have bones to chew on in their pens and play toys and a pool in the exercise yard. I try to make sure they are all happy and healthy.
As long as I am out with them control no longer seems to be a problem. It is when I am not with them that I seem to have the problems. I do not know how to have control of them when I am not with them. That is when they start barking.
Well, unfortunately, what you believe, and what they know, are two slightly different things!!:D And herein lies part of the problem..... It's possible you may have to have a rethink..... I don't think you can run this effectively AND have it both ways....
Only the Alpha dictates when and where other dogs may have bones to chew on. Food is a big 'control' factor within a pack, and the Alphas govern the distribution of food. Whilst you're not there, who's doing that?
If the dogs are able to all be together, they shouldn't need any toys. They play with each other. The most a wolf will find to play with, in the wild, is a stick.... Again, toys are a system of reward and exercise. They should not be left to play at their own devices...
Whilst the dogs are kept separate during the day, they bark as a means of communication and reassurance. A pack is a cohesive organism. By separating the pack, you're creating anxiety.... How much time do you spend with them during the day?
How long are your walks?
This is what makes me think that there's still a lot of mixed messages flying around.
You view them as pets, but they're a business venture. They're ultimately a financial concern.
If they're pets, they have access to you all the time, but these evidently aren't in the conventional sense....
You're mixing the two, which is why there's confusion in their minds, and yours.
We've had Charlie about 2 years. He's wire-haired JRT, found wandering in a local town and was picked up by the dog warden and sent to the rescue centre, where we found him. The vet reckoned it was hard to tell his age and guessed about 7, which makes him about 9 now. He hadn't been neutered (has now) or microchipped (likewise) or even had a name.
We soon realised that he had a few issues, mainly with loathing other dogs, but also he cringed if you carried a plate past him or picked a stick up to throw for him. He peed in the house, but didn't do the other and humped cushions. He also snapped if you got your face too close or took him by surprise. We all have had nips from him. Apart from that he was a happy soul, at ease in a home setting and loved his walks (on the lead!)
We thought the best thing to do was get his neutering done, which should curb some of the aggression and let him settle into the family. We managed to house train him, and he's very good if we have to go out for a few hours without him; he just curls up and goes to sleep. Doesn't damage furnishings or anything.
Now he's much less aggressive, and loves a cuddle but we still try not to make him jump and we keep him away from children if we can. We can walk him off lead out in the fields but it's straight back on the lead if another dog comes near. We can't walk him off lead near the road as he goes for lorries and big vans. We're having some success at stopping this behaviour, as he knows that if he doesn't lunge and bark at the vehicle, he gets a treat or lots of praise. He responds immediately to the word 'Wait' in various situations. I make him sit before I give him his food too.
We give him lots of exercise and play and he absolutely loves it.
We'd love another dog, or even a puppy but we're afraid there would be a bloodbath if we did. Is there any hope of this, or is he an 'only dog' dog? I'd love your opinion.
Sometimes, harsh as it seems, dogs of this kind actually need a firmer hand, rather than a softer one.
Whatever happened in the past is something you can neither remedy, nor change, so the best thing to do is to just shelve all that, and look at any behaviour he's manifesting now, as an issue, now.
I'm not criticising what you have done, nor condemning it - and I know it goes against anything many vets and 'experts' say - but to neuter a dog to alter it's behaviour is not a good and valid reason.
For a start, there's no guarantee it actually works, especially if it's not done early. Ideally, this will have an effect (if any) when they're young - about 6 - 8 months old. After that, the dog's behaviour is ingrained. You may notice a mild effect, but it's also not permanent.
By all means neuter a dog if the likelihood of it wandering off and cornering a female is a possibility. But mostly, a dog will go for a walk when you do, so it's not going to be able to couple successfully whilst the owners are there to prevent it....
Incidentally, champion pedigree show dogs in the UK are only eligible if not neutered. So it's by no means a standard accepted practice.
But as I said, I am not here to condemn or criticise. I'm merely pointing matters out. That's all....:o
I would suggest that one of the reasons he's less aggressive also has a great deal to do with how he's been treated and accepted. He no longer has to fend for himself, or be his own boss, so he's calmed down somewhat.
Wouldn't we all....?
Do any of the problems you mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of your post still occur?
JRTs do have a tendency to become more irritable when they're older....
The way to find a companion is to try to locate a more placid dog, one who is not confrontational, but playful. Introduce them on neutral territory, and try to do this over a period of time, so that they can run around and play together.
To begin with, take them for a walk side by side (one on each side of you) and make sure you halt any aggressive gesture or tendency immediately. Even a glance and a veer in the direction of the other dog has to be corrected on the spot.
When they're used to walking together, let them meet up, but watch for a high tail, slight wagging, cocked ears, thrust chest and hackles.... any of this, and it may spell problems....
Re the neutering...we took advice from the vet, he's a bit calmer generally but still has a go at the cushions on occasion! (Not that I'm houseproud or anything...perish the thought!)
Re the second paragraph, yes he still cringes when we carry plates past him. Weird one, that...I wonder if someone threw one at him once. The cringing at sticks is the same too....I imagine someone hit him with a stick. We have never struck him or hurt him, even when he nipped us. He hasn't nipped and drawn blood for about 8 months now. Obviously we've been wary of it and avoided 'looming' over him, which seems to trigger it.
I'll remember your advice about introducing a new dog. It echoes other things I've heard on the subject. I suspect we may leave it for a while as we have other things in hand and would prefer to give something like introducing a new dog our full attention.
Thanks for your views, much appreciated. :-))
Odd that it should see plates as fearful... sticks I can understand... but plates...?
The only thing I can possibly think of is that if he was in the habit of trying to help himself to food, whoever owned him before would whang him on the head with one...but that's pure conjecture and hypothesis of course.... although it's some aversion therapy!
Whilst I completely agree and concur that you shoud always be cautious about placing him in a perceived danger situation (like looming over him, as you describe) if he does get stroppy, he must be made to understand that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.
Inspite of his age and "cantankeous old Git" tendency, he still has to understand that successful integration within the pack removes his right to bite and behave like top dog.
Remember, he's your dog, not the other way around.
Whatever happens within your home must be completely, totally and utterly on your instigation, and your terms.
No matter what the age of the dog.
'You can't teach an old dog new tricks' -?
Rubbish.
Oh OK I'll shut up and go away
Fede, I think your advice is very good and down-to-earth. I'll look at the idea of making sure he knows his place is here...on our terms. Maybe he sometimes gets a bit above himself. I do find you can't ever relax the 'training'; they take advantage straightaway!
Well now it's interesting you say that....(and again, I have to emphasise, the "you" is generic, and there's no criticism ever intended... I think I'll have to write that into my signature as a disclaimer!!)
....it's a confirmation of the conviction I've always held that in order to have a successful relationship with your pet there has to be a "meeting of minds."
Unfortunately, because they obviously can't meet us on our level, we therefore have to 'click' our brain in a different direction, and meet them on theirs....
This 'taking advantage'.... It's natural that we should see it that way... Pushy little booghers, aren't they? Constantly trying to get away with murder!
To them, it's absolutely essential behaviour. And they can never let up.
Why?
Ok... let's see... you wake up in the morning, and you're thinking...
"Hmmm..Thursdsay... what a beautiful morning! Must ring Aunt Muriel to make a time to go over there and collect those rose bushes she doesn't want.... I think I'll put them in the back border.... I'll have to get some milk and eggs..... what shall I wear today....? Oh damn! Forgot the plumber's due round this afternoon to fix that pipe.... " burble, burble, bimble, bimble....
A dog's first - and constant - thought, if it thinks or believes it's pack leader, is to think:
"How am I going to survive the day?"
That's it. Pure and simple. 'How do I get through this?'
And remember, it will only think or believe it's pack leader, if we have given it signals that confirm - in its mind - that it is.
The reason a dog will keep 'taking advantage' or challenging, is to ascertain whether, if you are taking on the role as pack leader, you have what it takes, to occupy, and to keep, that position.
Pack leaders in the wild occupy an extraordinarily stressful postition.
They are responsible for keeping the pack cohesive.
They are responsible for the Pack's safety.
They are responsible for initiating and organising the Hunt.
They are responsible for defence, and detecting danger.
Their position is constantly threatened - both by outside unseen unpredictable dangers - and by usurpers and potential pretenders to the throne, from within the pack. So they have to be on the alert, and on their mettle, 100% of the time.
That's why your dog takes advantage. he's testing you to see how you'll handle the pressure.
Because no pack member will ever willingly defer to a leader that is demonstrably weaker than he is.
Keeping the training up 100% of the time is damn right.
I liken it to driving...
First lesson...
"oh my goodness... Ok... checklist.... car's in neutral, handbrake's on.... oh, dang, seatbelt..... ok, gear.. neutral... handbrake...inside rear-view mirror...ooops, too much... wing mirrors.... could you move that one in for me...? yes..no...too much...ok....now up just a fraction.... that's great.... now this one.... I can't tell unless I sit back, then I can't reach the damn thing....ok...down..... and out...ok. Good. Where's my handbag? Oh, thanks...Ok...now....Key...where's the key...? Oh, it's already in the ignition....Oh good grief! Ok, bag on the back seat.... now.....ok....neutral.... handbrake on.... belt is on..... "
Remember that?
and Now?
Get in, do the above, drive off.
Some drivers, once they pass their test, fall into bad habits, or forget some of the better ones.
In order to drive well, you have to drive mindfully, not automatically, but driving, on the whole, is easier.
That's what implementing The Technique is like.
Hard work at first, but when you realise you suddenly successfully made it there and back, and it was actually much easier and a lot more fun than you thought, it gets to be a good habit to implement!