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I describe it as "keeping the thread" like an invisible string that connects my dogs' minds with my own. This is something I CANNOT get my Old Feller to understand. If you (impersonal) go out with your dog, you are keeping that connection all the time. If you break the connection, let your mind wander off, so will your dog.
If you have it right (and I don't say I have ALL the time) your dogs will be constantly looking to see where you (personal) are to re-assure themselves that their pack leader is around and knowing that you are there, in charge, the thread isn't broken, they will be under control.
My Old Feller is an absolute bhugher for starting long and involved conversations or discourses while I have three hounds wandering about in fields - and I find it very difficult to keep the thread on the hounds and his chat. So usually the dogs win.
No offence was taken......I just didn't have time to type more.
I don't really have a lot of time right now either...
But one question I do have is......In your opinion how should things be changed? Of course you are not here so you only have to go on what I have told you. But I would be interested in how you think I can do things differently from the information I've given you.
Thanks,
Deb
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2008
At the risk of sounding as if I'm copping out and backing off from the question - that's not really up to me.
I will merely reiterate what I have already said....
I did venture the opinion that perhaps, because the edges are blurred with regard to how you view these animals, that therefore the dogs will always be reacting to, and with, mixed behaviour.
Dogs don't care what you're doing as a profession. All they want is to belong to a cohesive pack that functions well according to the Laws of Nature.
They want a definite and prominent Pack leader, or confusion will reign, and their behaviour will be disjointed.
As I have said, only the Alpha female in any pack, mates with the Alpha male. by "picking and choosing" the dogs you see best fit to mate, you are essentially disrupting the pack hierarchy, and confusing the pack as to what is happening.
To be blunt - and this is a big risk I'm taking, because I am very fond of you, Deb, so I don't want you to "hate me" for this, but ....
You're messing 'big time' with the Law of Nature.
So essentially, you either have to permit the pack to mate when, and as it sees fit, because you wish Nature to take its course - or you have to put up with the barking, and be completely dispassionate about it, and treat it purely and simply as a profitable business.
I'm still not clear as to how many dogs you have (you say you have 10 bitches, but I don't think you mentioned how many male dogs in total....?)
That's a big pack, even by Natural standards. Most wild packs will expand to 10 animals at the most, both males and females... after that, the Alpha pair will eject members who are old enough, to go and look after themsleves. These 'ousted' animals will eventually go on to form their own packs, or join another pack. Both of which of course are fraught with risks.
Everything you are doing is artificial, and alien concept to the dogs.
But in the end, because you are who you are, (their owner, and a breeder) the final decision in what you decide to do, is your call.
Everything I have said has been purely and simply from the Dog Behaviourist point of view. There is no critique or judgement. I have, in short, just told it like it is....
Thanks Fede........I appriciate your time and opinion....
I guess if I want harmony then I will have to make some decisions.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2008
The last thing I ever want to do, is to either add to or cause anxiety.
Obviously it would be better if I was with you. We'd go over this in a far more relaxed way, over a longer period of time. I'd be able to watch your dogs and see how they all get on, and maybe, over time, spot things going on.... see the dynamics unfold...
But this is all a bit impersonal and very distant.
I wish it could be more hands-on.
The only other thing I can advise is to not just take my word for it. See if you can find any other information. But hand on heart, I have merely given you my thoughts, and from a dispassionate point of view (I've gone over the thread and posts several times) I would stick to what I've said, because it just all makes sense.
Remember: I'm looking at it purely from a Behaviourist's point of view. Not a Breeder's or Trainer's POV. They would probably give you different advice as well.
Whatever you do, go with your gut instinct. Weigh it all up, and see what sits best with you.
Comments
I describe it as "keeping the thread" like an invisible string that connects my dogs' minds with my own. This is something I CANNOT get my Old Feller to understand. If you (impersonal) go out with your dog, you are keeping that connection all the time. If you break the connection, let your mind wander off, so will your dog.
If you have it right (and I don't say I have ALL the time) your dogs will be constantly looking to see where you (personal) are to re-assure themselves that their pack leader is around and knowing that you are there, in charge, the thread isn't broken, they will be under control.
My Old Feller is an absolute bhugher for starting long and involved conversations or discourses while I have three hounds wandering about in fields - and I find it very difficult to keep the thread on the hounds and his chat. So usually the dogs win.
Thanks for your thoughts
That's a bit short and sweet...
I hope I haven't caused any offence.... :sadc:
I don't really have a lot of time right now either...
But one question I do have is......In your opinion how should things be changed? Of course you are not here so you only have to go on what I have told you. But I would be interested in how you think I can do things differently from the information I've given you.
Thanks,
Deb
I will merely reiterate what I have already said....
I did venture the opinion that perhaps, because the edges are blurred with regard to how you view these animals, that therefore the dogs will always be reacting to, and with, mixed behaviour.
Dogs don't care what you're doing as a profession. All they want is to belong to a cohesive pack that functions well according to the Laws of Nature.
They want a definite and prominent Pack leader, or confusion will reign, and their behaviour will be disjointed.
As I have said, only the Alpha female in any pack, mates with the Alpha male. by "picking and choosing" the dogs you see best fit to mate, you are essentially disrupting the pack hierarchy, and confusing the pack as to what is happening.
To be blunt - and this is a big risk I'm taking, because I am very fond of you, Deb, so I don't want you to "hate me" for this, but ....
You're messing 'big time' with the Law of Nature.
So essentially, you either have to permit the pack to mate when, and as it sees fit, because you wish Nature to take its course - or you have to put up with the barking, and be completely dispassionate about it, and treat it purely and simply as a profitable business.
I'm still not clear as to how many dogs you have (you say you have 10 bitches, but I don't think you mentioned how many male dogs in total....?)
That's a big pack, even by Natural standards. Most wild packs will expand to 10 animals at the most, both males and females... after that, the Alpha pair will eject members who are old enough, to go and look after themsleves. These 'ousted' animals will eventually go on to form their own packs, or join another pack. Both of which of course are fraught with risks.
Everything you are doing is artificial, and alien concept to the dogs.
But in the end, because you are who you are, (their owner, and a breeder) the final decision in what you decide to do, is your call.
Everything I have said has been purely and simply from the Dog Behaviourist point of view. There is no critique or judgement. I have, in short, just told it like it is....
I'm sorry I couldn't be more.... encouraging.
I guess if I want harmony then I will have to make some decisions.
Obviously it would be better if I was with you. We'd go over this in a far more relaxed way, over a longer period of time. I'd be able to watch your dogs and see how they all get on, and maybe, over time, spot things going on.... see the dynamics unfold...
But this is all a bit impersonal and very distant.
I wish it could be more hands-on.
The only other thing I can advise is to not just take my word for it. See if you can find any other information. But hand on heart, I have merely given you my thoughts, and from a dispassionate point of view (I've gone over the thread and posts several times) I would stick to what I've said, because it just all makes sense.
Remember: I'm looking at it purely from a Behaviourist's point of view. Not a Breeder's or Trainer's POV. They would probably give you different advice as well.
Whatever you do, go with your gut instinct. Weigh it all up, and see what sits best with you.