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Ok - I have asked on various Buddhist sites why spitefulness and "Boddhistava-er than thou" attitudes seem to prevail.
Why is it that someone posts a seemingly innocuous question and other people seem to feel it incumbent on them to be spiteful and and nasty.
On here we seem to be quite happy to discuss without getting personal or trying to denigrate the original poster?
I am at a loss. His HH the DDLL says my religion is kindness but I find that his clan is vicious and nasty ...what gives????
I am not a Buddhist but I try to incorporate universal compassion into my practice ... I wouldn't dream of being that horrible. Can someone explain to me why Buddhists on line are so downright awful to each other in a way that I can't imagine they would be if they were sitting around my fire chatting to each other?
Or am I too naive?
Why is it that someone posts a seemingly innocuous question and other people seem to feel it incumbent on them to be spiteful and and nasty.
On here we seem to be quite happy to discuss without getting personal or trying to denigrate the original poster?
I am at a loss. His HH the DDLL says my religion is kindness but I find that his clan is vicious and nasty ...what gives????
I am not a Buddhist but I try to incorporate universal compassion into my practice ... I wouldn't dream of being that horrible. Can someone explain to me why Buddhists on line are so downright awful to each other in a way that I can't imagine they would be if they were sitting around my fire chatting to each other?
Or am I too naive?
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Comments
I don't have a definitive answer, but in my humble opinion it's because the people who inhabit (haunt?) most Buddhist boards are Buddhist in name only. They don't have a real practice nor, in most cases, an actual teacher. What they know they've learned from books probably (or maybe visions or drugs or whatever - who knows?). They think they know something about Buddhism, but in reality they don't have a clue. As it says in one of our confessional prayers, "give up the path on which you know so much but miss the one essential point."
The people that I've seen on those boards are often using their knowledge of Buddhism as a weapon to defeat and/or humiliate others. That's hardly the Buddhist way! It just becomes another form of ego trip, a way to make everything part of ego's territory. Very unfortunate, but also very much human nature, sadly.
Palzang
The secret is to recognise those for whom it is an occasional lapse, and forgive them, and embrace them. To recognise those for who it seems to be the norm, forgive them - but don't pour them the second cup of tea......
The answer is simple: they aren't welcome here.
:cheer:
My work schedule and commitments do not permit me to take up the offer either, so I think they've drafted someone in from another forum who's fairly Buddhist but somewhat new-age-ish and a little airy-fairy in her approach.
I think I'm about to get banned.....
She has proposed several topics for discussion (Rebirth, Killing, Enlightenment, that kind of thing ) but quotes no sutras/suttas, and most of the contributors are Christian/American.
In the killing thread we've somehow come to the conclusion that it's perfectly OK to kill an animal providing it was raised organically (!) and in the rebirth thread, most people aren't happy or comfortable about reincarnation because God has given us a purpose for our Soul.....:rolleyes:
So I'm afraid I lost my holier-than-thou temper, complained that there was nothing remotely Buddhist about discussions, pointed out that if I - as a Buddhist - had ventured into the Christian forums and expounded Buddhist viewpoints, I would have got edited, deleted and slapped down, and that if people were going to discuss certain topics, the least they could do is approach it with a little bit of Buddhist research beforehand.
Ooooooh dear.
Temper temper, Fede..... :rolleyes::-/
I'm awaiting an expulsion.
And I have been chucked out of sites before ... usually finding that they weren't really worth being in anyway. One ran on the lines that anything the mods posted was not to be criticised ... even if it was glorifying their choice of being polyamorous (not to everyone's taste) but I did .. with the inevitable consequence.
These days I do try to just vote with my feet. It really isn't worth getting into a verbal fight most of the time. (I said "I try" .. I didn't say I always managed it
I have found a lot of versions of The Pig Song. You may know it. The first verse goes:
It was the pig fair last September
The day I well remember
I was walking up and down in drunken pride
When my knees began to flutter
And I sank down in the gutter
And a pig came up and lay down by my side
As I lay there in the gutter
Thinking thoughts I could not utter
I thought I heard a passing lady say
You can tell the man who boozes
By the company that he chooses
And with that the pig got up and walked away.
"Birds of a feather flock together" I was told and, indeed, if you want to be a dove, it is foolish to flock with crows (not that I have anything against corvids - in fact, they fascinate me)
Ben
I sensed the calm here immediately, and that's why I chose to stick around..
I'll Dharma over Drama any day!!!
What Palzang described..."the people who inhabit (haunt?) most Buddhist boards are Buddhist in name only. They don't have a real practice nor, in most cases, an actual teacher. What they know they've learned from books probably (or maybe visions or drugs or whatever - who knows?). They think they know something about Buddhism, but in reality they don't have a clue"...is an uncannily accurate picture of another Buddhist board I used to frequent. It used to make me so sad and angry and frustrated and...I left. It really got to me and it was only after I'd been away for a few months that I finally understood the situation and it was exactly as Palzang described. In fact, the most vociferous and vicious of the members of that sight even bragged about not having a practice because it was unnecessary for him. Huh? Buddhism is a practice.
I don't know why I stuck around there for so long. Maybe I had room for a little more suffering in my life. But I can tell you what an utter relief it was to come back home to NewBuddhist. I don't know what I would have done without all of you.
Les is so right when he said it all comes down to the moderation (pun intended...or is that not a pun...?). Our mods don't put up with any kind of crap like that. They're fair but they set high standards which is exactly as it should be, in my humble (but pretty strict, in this instance) opinion. Nothing positive ever comes from trash talk. Nothing. There is simply no reason to allow it to poison our minds.
I know it's unrealistic to expect Buddhists to behave better on the internet than members of any other group. But sometimes I forget because I've been spoiled by you guys.
I can't guess what the Buddha would do on the internet, but I really like this verse from the Dhammapada (Dhp 15: Happiness):
It really does get to something though, when the biggest complaint we get about unacceptable or intollerable posts is because they're spam or 'bots.....
1. Immaturity. This is where you get the feeling that the average age on the board is about 13 (and a half). A deep contribution would be "Buddha rocks LOL" and it goes downhill from there.
2. Intellectual bullying. This is where each remark you make is picked apart in order to make you look stupid and to demonstrate the 'obvious' intellectual superiority of the bully doing it.
3. Bigotry. Simple - we are superior, the rest of you guys are second-rate 'no-hopers'. Oh yeah, and we have the scriptures to back this up.
What these boards lack is the feeling that there are any real people doing any sort of practice, beyond the most superficial. They lack compassion and tolerance and a willingness to make Buddhism relevant to modern life.
I guess it's human nature to grasp onto something which gives us comfort and then to defend it against any perceived threat. It's a pity when this spills over into what we see (and experience) in some places.
Namaste
Palzang
Which is fine...it is as it is and all is unfolding as it does.....
One day, the pendulum will come to a standstill... but whether this will be because we shall all be enlightened - or anihilated - is as yet, uncertain.....
:crazy:
I don't think it could have been said better.
I watch the generation of today and it makes me so sad. We are so very materialistic but this new generation is even worse than my generation is...I look at my sons and I see how materialistic they are and they were not raised (so I think) to be this way. But you're right......It's so ingrained that we don't even realize.
PEDANTRIES?!
MY WORD! I really did mean erudition.
Palzang, my mind is so full of my studies right now and I'm going without sleep getting ready for class, etc. Sometimes I get so tired I cannot even think of the right words, but I have no choice but to stay awake or drown. I guess I'll have to be a little more careful during my break times.
I do beg my pardon. You are a down-to-earth guy whose nature is lovable. No airs on you, my friend.
----
I deleted my post... because I really was just being wordy and perhaps that was my worst mistake. However, Palzang, you do have a very spot-on way of making things clear, which does show good learning and grounding. CHEERS!
Nirvy
I was hoping you didn't think I'm pedantic! Thanks for clearing it up...
Palzang
When the armies of Mara filled the skies with deadly arrows aimed at him who was on the verge of becoming the Buddha, the arrows turned into lotus blossoms: the arrows fired on Internet forums are only arrows because our own mind allows them to be.
Then my most recent forum got excessively bitchy - and I agree that I am sure these people would never have dared to speak like that in 'real life' and took huge liberties with one another. I lost confidence and vowed not to join other forums but this one looks a lot more straight-forward. I was really quite upset about it and quite hurt that my very abstract question had been misinterpreted, seconded by the moderators without anyone asking "what did you mean by that?" "Could you please clarify?" etc.
I know it is easy to misunderstand the 'posted' word but why do people assume that others are attacking them and not give others the benefit of the doubt?
Aside from a few narrow-minded souls though I have come across extremely knowledgable people - I think it's important not to generalise. We have moved on from the days where the internet was considered fine territory for friendless social-phobes who invent identities for themselves. Some people just appreciate a broad exchange with people they would never have been able to discuss with pre-internet and forum days.
Love,
Sara
I am not certain that things are really quite so rosy in Tibetan culture. There is materialism, including spiritual materialism... a tendency to view holy men and women as talismans, rife nepotism in the tulku system and Byzantine politics. I really think the modern western notion of Tibet smacks of a syncretism of Shangri-la with the myth of the noble savage.
There is no doubt about it, some of the best people in the world are Tibetans... but like any people, they run the whole gamut and I think it is important that we don't glorify a culture that is as entrenched in samsara in its own way as we are.
The Dharma is one thing, but when it comes to the culture let's take the good and leave the bad. For example, I don't think any woman in possession of her senses would trade her role in modern Western society for that of the "spiritual" East. To paraphrase the Virginia Slims ad: "We've come a long way, baby." Equally, do we really want to promote the wholesale adoption of a feudal tulku system here in the West? Food for thought.
Cheers,
Namgyal
This is very true. Distant horizons, snowy mist-clad mountains, ancient temples etc. make for a romantic brew. Shangri-la beckons.
Please don't let rude reality upset all this.;)
Palzang
I think that there are two kinds of poster with whom you may have that kind of particular problem in terms of 'little practise':
The intellectual
The intellectual (or thought to be intellectual) really approaches any area of studt interms of a game. The rules are set, the basis laid and every foot over the line should be stamped upon. I was witness to much of this in my philosophy studies. Usually the study of reason is king and joy is taken in disecting arguments and dominating others in terms of their weaknesses. Usually these kinds of posters can be avoided by simply ignoring their anaysis and continuing with the genuine discussion (I determine discussion to be a sharing of ideas - not an arm-wrestling match)
The Archivist
Archivists usually want to point out all of the innacuracies in terms of Buddhist study. Now, it should be clear, that their motivation for doing so is usually not with the intention of aiding your practise. The motivation is to vindicate their own study by comparing it to what they consider to be less thorough research.
So what do I mean by 'little practise'?
By this I mean, what others have already pointed out here in this thread, that the 'Buddhism' is, as Palzang's teacher put it, to be acquired and guarded. I have yet to find any Sutra or practise which encourages students to guard their pratice, or deny the Dharma to others... Is this Right Action?
Teachers can be cruel sometimes but the motivation is always pure.
Cruelty on the internet is usually motivated by impurity.
Take these experiences as gifts for your practise, my friend.
Gassho
Dave