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Atheist here...
Hi,
I'm an Atheist, have been for a long time. I've been studying Atheism for a year or so and take pride in what I've accomplished. In being an Atheist I research a lot of subjects dealing with religion. Recently, I came upon Buddhism and took an interest in it and I was quite impressed because of its compassionate and rational nature. It is unlike other religions I've looked into that are focused around fear-mongering and double-talk. I was also happy that it was written by a philosopher. I enjoy philosophy and have a great deal of respect for much of it. Anyway before I ramble too much I have a few questions about it that I'd appreciate if any of you would take the time to answer.
1) Is Buddhism simply just a philosophy or is it more?
2) Would a Buddhist think of himself as a process rather than a human?
3) How does rebirth work?
4) If there is no such thing as the essence of "me" then what is reborn?
Thank you.
I'm an Atheist, have been for a long time. I've been studying Atheism for a year or so and take pride in what I've accomplished. In being an Atheist I research a lot of subjects dealing with religion. Recently, I came upon Buddhism and took an interest in it and I was quite impressed because of its compassionate and rational nature. It is unlike other religions I've looked into that are focused around fear-mongering and double-talk. I was also happy that it was written by a philosopher. I enjoy philosophy and have a great deal of respect for much of it. Anyway before I ramble too much I have a few questions about it that I'd appreciate if any of you would take the time to answer.
1) Is Buddhism simply just a philosophy or is it more?
2) Would a Buddhist think of himself as a process rather than a human?
3) How does rebirth work?
4) If there is no such thing as the essence of "me" then what is reborn?
Thank you.
0
Comments
Welcome to the site. I am new to Buddhism myself so I cannot answer your questions at this time because I am learning myself but there are people here that have been practicing a long time that should be able to. You will find many people of different faiths come here. This site is also, in my opinion, about the best site there is---one can come here and get answers to questions without someone being condescending or patronizing. That is a refreshing change; I have been to some other sites where all they do is "flame" each other or put someone down for having a different opinion or simply because they are new! That is really sad in my opinion. Anyway, welcome to the site.
Adiana
Is Buddhism more than a philosophy? Yes, I believe it is. It is a complete psychology as well, a 2 1/2 millennia-long study of the human mind. It is also a complete system for training the human mind. In addition, it is a vast collection of myth and history.
Does the Buddhist see themselves as a process rather than a human? I do not see any opposition between these two, ab initio. To the Buddhist, human beings are important because they have access to those aspects of mind which enable liberation from the human condition of dukkha. They do not, in and of themselves, have independent existence, being contingent like all phenomena. The notion of the Wheel of Births suggests that all life is involved in a process, whether we take the Wheel as metaphorical or actual.
How does rebirth work? You are born, you live, you die, you are born again. Each day we are born into a new day; each moment we are born into a new moment. We bring with us the results of all our past actions (Skt. vipaka) and, because we exist in a 'field of action' (as the Gita calls the world) we have to act which means that we are creating suffering or joy for the future. This is what is called kamma (Pali) or karma (Sanskrit).
What is reborn? This is the question most Westerners ask, at some point. It arises from the monolithic view of consciousness which resides in our myth of the 'soul'. Sogyal Rinpoche quotes the Dalai Lama:
The difficulty in examination of this notion is that it is necessary to use the language specifically developed for such an examination, just as we need to understand particular languages to understand Western sciences. Our old terminology will not do. Even the new, technical language of psychology and psychoherapy can compare in subtlety with the specific vecabulary of Sanskrit and Pali. Not being a scholar in either, I can't go further into this. When I consider it, I am reminded of Saint Thomas Aquinas's statement that what he had written was as worthless as straw compared with what he had seen.
1) Is Buddhism simply just a philosophy or is it more?
2) Would a Buddhist think of himself as a process rather than a human?
3) How does rebirth work?
4) If there is no such thing as the essence of "me" then what is reborn?
My answers:
1) Buddhism will be whatever you make of it. It can be a way of practice, a way of life, a philosophy, or a religion depending how you use it.
2) That depends on the Buddhist. I vary from seeing myself as a "human" to "nama-rupa".
nama = name or mind rupa = form or body. Before understanding anatta you may see a "human" or "person". After understanding anatta you may see just this mind and body. Neither is us, and both are conditioned on the other. Without a body there is no mind, without a mind there is no body. I try to reflect and meditate on this as much as possible so that one day I will have a clear comprehension of what "I" really am.
3) Here is something to read on kamma and rebirth: http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270&highlight=kamma
4)Also see answer to number three. I myself cannot answer it sufficently.
I hope my answers are somewhat helpful.
hello EonBlue, and as with my dear friends on site, may I welcome you to our humble but happy abode - !!
I will tell you how it is with me....
1) To me Buddhism is a complete Way of Life.... you will find that there are many different schools, all of which adopt a slightly different approach... for my part, I still do not know what 'school' I am drawn to, inspite of several years of 'Following the Path'. For me, I am content to Hold within my heart the absolute honesty and incontestable frankness of the Four Noble Truths, the uplifting guidance and instructrions of the Eightfold Path and the crystal clear advice of the 5 precepts....
2) I consider being Human a privilege rather than an excuse... I am not knowlegeable enough to speak on behalf of a Monk, however... or anyone else for that matter!
I have heard that being re-born in human form is as fortunate as a blind turtle surfacing in a vast ocean for a breath of air, and putting its' head through a wooden hoop happening to be just floating by.... a rare and precious privilege. So I'm personally making the best of it...!
3) Light a candle. Take another candle, and light this second one with the flame of the first. Blow the first candle out. Is the second flame the same as the first, or different?
Reborn is being in the state of Samsara... kind of like Adiana's signature....! if we are unable to attain Enlightenment in this Lifetime, we are likely to be reborn and know suffering.... having achieved Enlightenment (incidentally, I believe everyone can, here, today and now....!) we become no-self - all illusion is stripped away.... we See Things As They Are. And we are able to be in this world but not of it....
Tried to answer... might have failed...!! But hey, it was worth the five minutes, heh?
1) Who contributed to the idea of rebirth? Why? Where? and for what reason?
2) From what I've read about Buddhism Nirvana is achieved when you leave the cycle of rebirth. To leave the cycle you must practice good karma. (I hope I have written that right). Anyway, If Nirvana is achieved after you leave the cycle, how do you know its real?
3) What is Nirvana in terms that an "average" person could understand.
4) Who was Buddha?
5) What makes Buddhas studies any different from Aristotle, Aquinas, Kant, or Nietzsche?
6) Are there any risks to someone who does not practice Buddhism.
Again thank you all for your responses, Oh and Elohim I just noticed your link ill be reading it in a sec.
Crikey.... is there a prize at the end of all this? Could I choose thre weeks in the Seychelles, please - ??!,
1) "It should be no more surprising to be born twice than it is to be born once." Voltaire.
rebirth was widely accepted even in Christianity,up to about the 12th century.... I'm not sure I understand where you're going with question 1.... it would be impossible to fully answer your question.
2) You can only know that once you've achieved it..
3) The 'average' person cannot understand it.... if you think you can explain it it is ungraspable.... it is the sublime end and beginning....
4) He was Siddharta Gauthama, a noble prince who achieved enlightenment after six long years of seeking, self-deprivation and hard work.... he was still this person after enlightenment.... Buddha simply means "awake" so anyone can be Buddha.... me, you.... But all descriptions are just convenient labels.... They are not who we are, they are just things we do....
5) I don't know.
7) Only the same ones if you don't practise Christianity, Judaism, Islam...
On many questions posed to him (Does God exist? What is the afterlife, like?) Buddha remained silent. Not because he didn't know, but because he knew that trying to find all the answers was a useless, time-wasting and pointless exercise.... not thatI am saying that to you.... your curiosity is admirable and your questions intelligent and thought-provoking. But not all of them can be answered - within this lifetime.... sometimes, instead of seeking 'out there' for answers, it is far better to 'go within' and establish your own Truth....
As you can see, we have slightly different sets of answers to you questions. Buddhism is not monolithic but is dynamic. We do not simply study 2000 year old texts. Our teachers are living people whose lives and practice illuminate and explain the Dharma in new ways.
This is why Buddhism can be seen as a particular paradigm similar to 'scientific method'. Nothing is taken for granted (not even nibbana) but needs to be tested by each practitoner.
For this very reason, the answers to your questions will not be entirely satisfying. It is a bit like learning about the life of Louis Pasteur, about how a microscope works, the laws of optics and biology, but all from books. We shall never understand the process of infection unless we put our eye to the microscope and conduct the experiments ourselves.
This is exactly why Buddhism is an ideal practice for atheists. In my experience, the majority of atheists whom I have met are honest seekers. I do not find anything surprising in doubting the literality of the old myths. Both Jesus and the Buddha Shakyamuni clearly told their followers to do the experiments themselves.
We are not "enlightened" by someone outside ourselves. We wake ourselves up to what already is. And we shall only do that when we realise that we are asleep.
Very interesting book regarding using Buddhism in your life, following the teachings of Buddha with dieties or gods.
Michael
I gotta admit that these answers are making me kind of skeptical of Buddhism.
I left Christianity for a reason:
I can't bring myself to believe that there was one magical human being a loooong time ago who figured out all the answers to life(and death), but won't give you the answers...you have to find them yourself...by acting the way you are told by this "magic man" for the rest of your life.
1) How do we know that the Buddha was even real, and if we do, how do we know he wasn't full of it?(i.e. Just speaking riddles and puzzles that nobody really understands but just pretend to, to seem 'wise')
2) Wouldn't a real "Buddhist" not study Buddhism, and instead search for his/her own answers? I mean, how are you finding life's "true" answers for YOURSELF if you are following the guidelines of somebody else who found what worked for them. If you study what the Buddha taught, then you are only setting yourself up to copy him and you will never find your own answers.
I'm really not trying to be offensive or anything...I am just extremely skeptical and I am seeing red flags left and right. When I look around our world I see billions of people spending their entire lives trying to become exactly like their local Messiah/Buddha/Holyman and it seems that it is all a great big game, and nobody is winning...because the world has changed greatly since these "Great Ones" taught their philosophies.
I think that maybe religion is just an out-dated version of Science/Psychology. The brand new version is right here, but nobody recognizes it...and still want to look back in time for the answers that were easier or more magical.
You make interesting points ... How does one learn to drive a car ? One could jump in and drive or read about it first and then drive. If one only reads one will never drive a car .. if one simply jumps in they may wreck a lot of cars before learning how to drive !!!!!
So the best bet is somewhere in the middle.
In western religions people follow scriptures much too closely even to the point of believing utter non sense but claiming it's true because it is in "The" book. No one would believe in sunny Las Vegas that I walked on water .. so why believe someone else did ?? Besides all that no one can convince me writings that are thousands of years old are free from error or the "control" of man.
We learn from the world NOT from a book. We want to learn to drive .. drive the car. Want to understand where life came from .. dig in the rocks ect ect. Still we can share our experiences through writings ect.. Like in science .. we do not simply read we review others experiments and ideas. We test thoughts in science .. we test thoughts in buddhism.
In Buddhism writings are less important experience more important and to be sure the Buddha was not aware of everything we know today. I am sure he would of loved a computer. There are buddhist that have their nose stuck in writings and like others believe what seems to defy common knowledge or what we have learned from scientific research.
Nevertheless there is an aspect of buddhism that is very modern and provides cutting edge insights. It blends well with science. Psychology and other sciences. If any religion mergers with science some day in a new thought system it will be buddhism.
Still to understand Buddhism or science one must be free to walk away from thoughts and ideas. Buddhism like science is open to change it is a personal experience and both will change I'd wager.
Their is no reason to cling to science or buddhism take what is useful and find happiness .. that is all.
Good Day ...
Why afraid to leave an idea ???? You give thoughts to much worth. Invoke your ideas when you need them to work for you ... your ideas are not you ??
I study science .. I understand evolution .. I use evolution.. I do not have to call myself an "Evolutionist". Watch out everyone the "evolutionist" is here.
Let thoughts arise and fall ... don't cling.
I am NOT my ideas and your ideas are not you. Lighten up on yourself.
Good Day ...
When it comes to the teachings of the Buddha, you don't have to worry about offending as long as you are looking for the truth. And even then, I don't know if any offense would be taken. Harsh words are your own doing and bring about their own karma.
As for searching for answers, a group of people (called the Kalamas) asked questions very much like this.
Here is a snippet:
5. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does greed appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" -- "For his harm, venerable sir." -- "Kalamas, being given to greed, and being overwhelmed and vanquished mentally by greed, this man takes life, steals, commits adultery, and tells lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and ill?" -- "Yes, venerable sir."
6. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does hate appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" -- "For his harm, venerable sir." -- "Kalamas, being given to hate, and being overwhelmed and vanquished mentally by hate, this man takes life, steals, commits adultery, and tells lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and ill?" -- "Yes, venerable sir."
7. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does delusion appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" -- "For his harm, venerable sir." -- "Kalamas, being given to delusion, and being overwhelmed and vanquished mentally by delusion, this man takes life, steals, commits adultery, and tells lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and ill?" -- "Yes, venerable sir."
8. "What do you think, Kalamas? Are these things good or bad?" -- "Bad, venerable sir" -- "Blamable or not blamable?" -- "Blamable, venerable sir." -- "Censured or praised by the wise?" -- "Censured, venerable sir." -- "Undertaken and observed, do these things lead to harm and ill, or not? Or how does it strike you?" -- "Undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill. Thus it strikes us here."
9. "Therefore, did we say, Kalamas, what was said thus, 'Come Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill," abandon them.'
You can read the rest here: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm
-bf
I can see what you are saying.
Cars must be driven a certain way to ensure safety for the driver and others.
Therefore, it is better to learn from somebody who can teach you correctly.
But, at the same time, Philosophy from the Buddha to modern time is like somebody who has mastered the canoe teaching somebody to fly a space shuttle.
This is something I have come to realize. I don't wish to become a "Buddhist", I only want to learn what Buddhists believe and then incorporate the views I think are helpful into my own.
Buddhafoot,
Thanks for the info. It is interesting, but also common sense. You don't need to be enlightened to know that hate, greed, and delusion bring no benefits to the human race. I don't believe that anybody needs to be taught morals, we know what is right and what is wrong.
That is true that one doesn't need to be enlightened to know that hate and greed, etc. ...
Unfortunately, I have found that many religions teach a person's eternal salvation in defined in the terms of "will you do or not do as I say" - regardless of the harm it may cause others. Same with traditions or "what the scriptures say" or because it was written in the Quran or Bible or simply because an elder or teacher said it.
Sadly it seems there are a lot of people out there that don't have the wisdom to simply question "Why?" when they realize the harm their actions can cause.
There is the lesson of Abraham and Isaac in the Bible. A man forced to slay his own son to continue to find "grace" in the eyes of a deity. Regardless of the harm and pain it would cause. Now, this story in the Bible has a wonderfully happy ending - but no happy ending was guaranteed.
It seems many religions, teachings and teachers *require* blind faith. Willing sheep for the slaughter.
Doesn't seem like you have that problem
-bf
Hello Redpill ...
Always a pleasure to chat with you .. even when we disagree.
Again you make great point ... still if you can weave around some outdated info .. you may find buddhism to have some amazing cutting edge insights.
Have you seen this book ?
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Single-Atom-Convergence-Spirituality/dp/0767920813/ref=sr_1_1/002-9200579-8368839?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193187419&sr=1-1
Good Day ...
Or what will happen ?? Will lightning STRIKE !!!!!!
Wonderful Simon ...
Good Day ...
I have been accused of hating religious people before. I don't hate religious people, though. I hate the religion they follow and the things it causes them to do in it's name.
Have you(or anyone here) seen "What the Bleep Do We Know", the documentary?
I HIGHLY recommend this movie to everybody I know. It has opened my eyes to some of the things that you have previously posted - about reality and our comprehension of it.
There is even a small part that shows how a Buddhist blessed or cursed different samples of water, and how it affected the individual molecules' shapes.
i.e blessed water looking beautiful, cursed water looking evil.
*edit* I just remembered that somebody posted a thread about the documentaryHere
But hey, what's in a name....?
Very informative post .
Cheers ...