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You can beat depression without medication. The key is to nurture mind, body, and spirit.
Meditation is important, of course, and deals mainly with the "mind" aspect. Meditation alone, however, is not enough.
Depression is a physical disease. Diet and exercise are our greatest weapons in all matters of the body. I can't stress this enough. You need to move. You can start with something as simple as walking. Walking can touch upon all three components, mind, body, and spirit. Thich Nhat Hanh often discusses walking meditation, and I highly recommend his books. You must walk briskly, however, not leisurely, in order to get the endorphins flowing. That is our immediate goal. Walking is a way to break the chain and start developing positive habits. It will also get you out into the light of day, very helpful in battling depression.
Gradually, you'll want to move up to more rigorous exercise when you are able. Rigorous exercise is the best anti-depressant there is. Just like taking a pill, however, you have to keep it up. The endorphins will sustain you, and gradually start to alter your brain chemistry on a more permanent basis. You have to fight for it, though.
Diet is just as important. I think it should go without saying that if you currently use alcohol or recreational drugs, quitting those should be your very first priority. You need a clear head for this. Cut out those foods that are unhealthy and make you feel bad. You know the ones. Stick to the basics, get plenty of fruits, vegetables, and healthy proteins. I recommend a vegetarian diet, but if that's too much of a change then just try to make healthier choices. Depression can be related to nutrition, and you're going to want to make sure you're getting everything you need. Try a multivitamin a day if you're not sure.
Working with spirit is a more vague type of thing. We all understand spiritual practice, however, and whatever form that takes for you, be sure to include it in your plan. Understanding you are not alone is half the battle. Nurturing the spirit can be as simple as lighting a stick of incense and engendering a sense of gratitude. Whatever makes you feel good. Of course, meditation also touches upon the "spiritual" to a degree. Buddhist practice is probably the best there is for fighting depression. There's something to be thankful for, right there.
There is one exercise that stands out above others for me, and that is tai chi chuan. Tai chi is an art that merges all three aspects of mind, body, and spirit. I can't recommend it highly enough. It's impossible to be depressed while practicing tai chi. Over time, this ancient art will help you stay grounded and centered. If you sign up for a class, it has the added benefit of being a social activity where you will make new friends in a positive, relaxed environment. Traditional tai chi chuan is also a martial art, which will help you feel more empowered and confident. Tai chi comes from Taoism, which is closely related to Zen, and blends very well with Buddhist practice. It's a win-win-win all the way around.
Once you start feeling the joy of life returning, you must continue your new practices. This is so important. If you are prone to depression, it will return if you give it half a chance. It is a lot harder to have to claw your way out, than to avoid the pit to begin with. I should know, I've had to do it too many times. Just remember to take care of mind, body, and spirit, every single day, and soon you will be standing on your own two feet again.
I'm feeling really bad this week, and wondering if I should go back on the anti-depressant drugs.
I used Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil / whatever you call it, for about six months. It was grand, I totally came out of my depression. It made me full of energy and sociability, and I suddenly got a new job and a girlfriend, and I was happy and it was wonderful. (pity about the lack of sexual interest - a side-effect of the pills. Good for monks!)
I came off the pills about a year ago, and now I think I'm sliding back into depression.
I've got a couple of good books on it, The Zen Way Through Depression and The Mindful Way Through Depression. They are helpful.
I am also maintaining my daily meditation practice. It definitely helps. For example, tonight I was feeling really bad, triggered by an unexpected and noisy party happening next door. I put in ear-plugs and meditated for about 10 minutes, and suddenly I felt about 50% better. Still in a blue mood, but not suicidally down.
Hmm... anyway, I just wanted to show my appreciation for this topic, and everyone's thoughtful replies. Thanks!
go back on the meds. Antidepressant medications are not a cure any more than wearing glasses is going to cure your myopia or insulin will cure your diabetes.
meditation, good diet and exercise will help and bring some improvement. But medication, meditation, good diet and exercise might lift the depression entirely.
I confused depression with unhappiness and I discovered they are waytotally not the same. If you are temporarily unhappy, then meditation, exercise etc are really all you need. If you are actually depressed they will never be enough.
And if you can safely take bupropion, there are fewer sexual side effects.
Those are two exceptional books. Another couple I would suggest are called "The Happiness Trap" by Russ Harris, an MD from Australia, and an excellent psychological exercise book called "Get Out Of Your Mind and Into Your Life" by Steven Hayes.
They are books about Acceptance and are easy reads with a lot of good ideas and strategies.
I have been badly depressed for as long as I can remember. I have been through all the anti-depressants. However, nothing has helped me till I got on to combination of meds along with Buddhist and meditation practice. I am diagnosed with Schizo-Affective disorder. I take Sulpiride for psychotic symptoms, it works really well with out the dumbing of my emotions like Olanzapine did. For depression I have found Mirtazapine to be the best. It's not a re-uptake inhibitor so no dodgy side effects and emotional flattening. Ask your Doctor about Mirtazapine I can't recommend it enough. Of course we are all different what works for me might not work for you. Also recently I have added Bupropion into the mix with positive results.
Sometimes one of the easiest ways to deal with depression, efficiently, is through the physical.
For instance, some small amount of depression can end up being touched off by low blood sugar. Lots of people have this and don’t know it. So drink a small glass of orange juice when you feel low can help a little bit, and every little bit helps. Worst-case scenario, you will be healthier and have fewer colds.
Or lets say you can’t get yourself to sit on the cushion and meditate. Don’t beat yourself up. No problemo, take it on the road.
In other words go out for a walk and watch your breaths counting an inhalation and an exhalation as 1, counting them from 1 to 10, and than starting over again. Usually 20 minutes is the optimum time to do this, not to say you can’t do it longer if you want to, and are having a good time.
This concentration on breath will break up your habitual engrams in your habitual brain, and the bad habitual thoughts will lose their power over you at least temporarily.
After a while you will become more skilled in turning your head away from negative thoughts. You can train the mind, just like a little animal.
The way that the mind works is this. It is what is called “One Pointed,” or has one thought at a time. These thought happen so rapidly, that we don’t usually notice this, and believe that they are joined in some way, like a film.
However, if you think and pay attention to the one breath very strongly while saying one (out loud is stronger, but it can be done silently when you need to) than breathe again, saying 2, etc, it will block the other negative ideas from manifesting.
I won’t go on and on. But exercise is good, any exercise that makes you breathe just a little faster, like walking rapidly. Change your breath pattern, and you change your thoughts. They seem to be joined in this way.
Music releases endorphins in your brain. Endorphin will elevate your mood and interfere with pain receptors.
Try combining these, even though each one has its own way of helping, just for variety. Like walking fast with music, etc.
Lastly, here is something that works really well. Have a novel that you read daily for a little while, the more exciting the better. It is like a little vacation from your self.
Music releases endorphins in your brain. Endorphin will elevate your mood and interfere with pain receptors.
I love that you mentioned music here. Music is my life, but more than that, all life is music. Like all sense perceptions, however, we must take care that music does not become an attachment, or a means of escaping reality. Music is a wonderful and amazing tool for altering consciousness, but remember to listen to the silence between the notes, as well. :cool:
You are quite right in saying that any pleasure wrongly enjoyed, or overly used, can quickly morph into a form of suffering.
Therefore the wisdom words: “Everything in moderation.” Or even Buddha’s lessons about the “Middle Way.”
Perhaps even depression is an over indulgence in the passions, which begin as seemingly harmless stimulation and with over use, once again, morphs into pain and suffering.
Negative emotions are a little bit like food, in that they feed us on some level, and are so readily available, that it takes some skill on our part to use them judiciously.
All of life, after all, is a skill. A good and wise life doesn’t just happen.
I just want to throw this aside in: A favorite mantra of mine is…
“This too, will pass.”
Very often when we are depressed, it is hard to remember that moods are like the weather, and…
“Sometimes it rains.”
But equally true…
“The sun will shine, once again.” Always has…
So in this way, fear can often be our biggest, and bad-dest enemy. The fear that, our present terrible mood is our new normal.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but anyone whose treatment for depression has not really been working for a while may want to have themselves evaluated for bipolar disorder. After years of being treated unsuccessfully for depression I was finally diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder, with great success. Bipolar is very hard to diagnose even for professionals since it often presents as ordinary depression. In my case the change in my life after being correctly diagnosed was very positive.
I think that some professionals are caught up in the whole idea of there being a manic phase to the ’bipolar’ problem. But, there is also a ‘unipolar’ manifestation of this particular problem, where the manic phase is closer to normal, but you still have the characteristics swings between the two moods.
And with Bipolar disorder, correct medication can make significant changes whereas talk therapy does not have immediate or often significant impact.
There are a number of factors. In many instances of mental health issues, medication does not have significant long term efficacy and can become dependence forming. In others, it is quite the opposite.
A study that was conducted by R.D. Laing some time ago involved a program called Sotaria House. They studied street people whose prominent diagnosis was schizophrenia. There was a nearby mental hospital where they had problems with demands on the system by these street people (in San Francisco I believe). The people would go into the hospital, get on their meds, feel well and be released then go back on the street, fall off their meds and end up back where they had began (it is called recidivism).
Laing offered an alternative to traditional medication. His Sotaria house did not offer medication, but rather he taught people how to live with their symptoms. To my way of thinking, he taught people a lot of awareness and acceptance. I cannot recall the numbers but they were striking. Recidivism amongst his client base was I believe below 10% (people not experiencing the same problems) and the medication approach was more than 80%.
From that sample, you cannot conclude the efficacy of mindfulness and acceptance for a population other than schizophrenic street people in San Francisco. What is compelling however, is that the dependence for that population solely on medication (the standard that tends to be used quite often) could not near match the power of mindfulness. It is also evident that there is an over-dependence on medication as an end rather than a means.
As was mentioned earlier, the most responsible and safest course of choice is to consider all possibilities and be fully aware of how you are being effected.
thanks for such a great thread and wonderful replies. lots of material to digest, but:
i've had "double depression" (ie, clinically chronic and major depression), social phobia and panic disorder for many years, and without exaggeration this package has greatly compromised my life. therapy has had a helpful but mild effect. medications and alt remedies have worked very sporadically, so it's been terribly hard to build consistency around them.
although meditation has gotten better and better since i started it this summer, i have not found it particularly helpful for depression. but today i felt that i gained a clue. if i may explain-
when i meditate lately i've found a strong barrier that i keep running up against- a kind of conglomoration of fear and physical discomfort. now, one day i intuited that when i'm able to get past these challenges i will reach the next significant level of meditative awareness. and i sensed that this barrier has a lot to do with my depression package, so there's a double incentive there, and that knowledge has really motivated me in my meditation lately.
which brings me to today, in which i was doing an exercycle meditation (for some reason, i've found that lots of things not 'officially' meditation have turned into meditations of their own accord, like exercise and trying to fall asleep).
anyway, while pedaling like vladek spiegelman i quickly sensed the fear and pain as usual and attempted to let it go, again as is usual. then after a little while i felt a small flood of loving-kindness energy directed towards me in response to my efforts, and just afterward some instinct told me to directly act on the feelings of fear and pain. so i screamed in rage and pain.
after that, i paused and waited a few moments. then, something told me that this was an appropriate response, and probably was related to some very old issues i've always stuggled with. so i screamed a few more times, in different intensities and pitches. it still felt helpful and 'right'.
so i feel that i gained a new tool today directly in response to my persistance in meditation. indeed i was shocked that screaming could be combined with meditation in any productive way, but i'm guessing that was probably my 'this is the way things are supposed to be' mind talking. on reflection, the release of screaming / roaring / growling feels similar to my attempts at imitating the deep, gutteral and powerful recordings of tibetan chanting, which i've always been attracted to. somehow there is a similiar mechanism at work in my case.
...
one other particular insight i had lately is that meditation is quite possibly the greatest hobby that a person can have. it has very little requirements in terms of tools and conditions, goes with you everywhere you go and does not require physical health or physical ability. there are all kinds of ways you can do it and the results you get are some of the most interesting, pertinent and self-empowering you can get from any possible activity that you can choose. in fact, perhaps the hobbies that most people really fall in love with are in effect bridges to meditation, just that people don't generally think of them that way.
I always found it interesting that R. D. Laing had a theory that schizophrenia may actually be an evolutionary step forward for man, and that it was just not yet been harnessed and used correctly.
This may not be a crazy as it sounds at first.
Some of the very wise and helpful shamans had powers beyond the normal, because of their increased sensitivities. They would have been diagnosed as schizophrenic today. They did poorly if they didn’t draw off from society, their villages, and often lived apart. But then they served their communities very well, when left to their own devices. Because this high sensitivity told them things like which plant would be healing. They did this by noticing what the more normal types didn’t see.
I wonder sometimes if our most sensitive individuals don’t also draw off today into meditation for similar reasons. I am not saying that they are crazy. I am saying that living closely within a group, much like our work a day life, maybe over stimulating to our more sensitive individuals.
These same individuals if not allowed to draw off often start showing symptom either physical or mental, because in my opinion their sensitive systems become both frazzled and exhausted. One of these symptoms, I believe, may be depression.
It is my personal opinion that, you are going to make great strides through your use of meditation. I have a strong feeling about you, for some reason, and my insights, when they hit me like this, are very seldom wrong. You are a natural, my friend.
Some day you are going to be grateful for every single pain you have suffered, as it is going to provide you with rapid growth, and understanding. Your pain will be your fuel.
Or as they say, “From he who is asked much, much is given.” I fully know that this quote is backwards from how they usually say it, but that is also how it works. So be of good cheer.
Interesting discussion. I have always thought that schizophrenics are on some higher plane than us mere mortals. When in the past I have had psychotic episodes, I thought I was in contact with extra-dimensional entities. Even now while sane and on anti-psychotics, I can't completely rule out that it was just an illusion. It might have really happened.
Since what takes place within the mind is a dream, I believe that everything, looked at from one perspective is of course an illusion, or a temporary figment of our imagination within the mind.
But when looked at from the perspective of being within the dream itself, there is far more going on and also possible, than most people will allow. These people are trying to be normal, and demanding that everyone be normal with them. They are holding on to an imaginary concept of homogenization of what is acceptable, simply out of fear; this being the fear that they are not actually in control. I believe and have witnessed over the years, that there is no such thing as “normal” or “average;” there are only vast varieties of uniqueness, and vast possibilities to discover.
It is advisable however, in good part, to avoid the extremes, and not to wander off so far alone that you cannot find your way back to sharing this world with others. But, a little of your own uniqueness is like a spice to enhance your life by allowing for creativity.
Sometimes truth comes to us packaged much like a metaphor, or a picture, or a personification, or even a sound. So, we might see a wise fellow, for instance, saying something wise to us, probably a product of our right brain, which isn’t so wordy as our left-brain. This event however could easily be an insight, or even a breakthrough of some kind, which is merely packaged in a unique fashion.
Take what arrives like it is a gift, it is. Be open and receptive, and than go on to investigate it further over time. There is no reason to run towards it, and no reason to run from it. Let it be a teacher.
There is a correspondence between our left and right brain across what is called the corpus callosum (a bridge of sorts), and a wholeness is to be had by listening to both sides of our brain.
I am schizophrenic and I thought that was a funny video too! Definitely made me laugh. Then again, not funny when you're in the midst of an acute episode of paranoid psychosis. Still, laughing at yourself is a very good tonic.
This really is a good thread. So many good points being made and I really respect people for coming forward to tell about their particular mental illnesses (challenges?).
Too many people are still quite uptight about it all, but I think that if people come forward and share it really lessens the stigma, at least in some people's minds.
My perspective on my schizophrenia is that when symptoms spring up it generally has to do with some sort of ego imbalance, which is why I've become more drawn to Buddhism. The Lojong slogan "All dharma agrees at one point" drives that idea home because the one point is that clinging to the ego is the cause of suffering. That's pretty profound. I think it was Pema Chodron who said that the ego is not the enemy and that you have to learn to make friends with it. If you can "make friends" with the unwanted parts of yourself, you stop clinging to them through attachment/aversion. Then again, I'm not sure about it being a beginner at all of this, but I'm curious.
late reply, but thank you for your kind words and insights, S9.
Some day you are going to be grateful for every single pain you have suffered, as it is going to provide you with rapid growth, and understanding. Your pain will be your fuel.
yes, this is how i try to look at it, ie the hurts are the gifts. i came across this concept somewhere or other and it immediately flew across the room and velcro'd on to me. so that was that.
at the same time, i miss the earlier period of meditation in which i was only aware of random fluttering thoughts, distractions, and minor discomforts related to my seated posture. it was a more harmonious experience, although possibly did not cut to the core as much as my current practice does.
i've now medidated in at least four different states ('normal', while exercising, while getting results from the anti-depressant adderal, and while sitting under the cannabis tree) and the great barrier is always there. seems that there are no shortcuts around it, and the only way to the other side is through diligent effort, right practice, etc, over a goodly amount of time.
buddha, dharma, sangha, give me strength while i walk through this wasteland...
I don’t think many people realize that schizophrenia isn’t one thing (disease?), last time I heard there were 200 kinds of schizophrenia. The type of schizophrenia that has its onset during the late teens with the word salad etc. gets the most press. Also, I believe that we should understand that schizophrenia is a number line starting at one end with a form that is so extremely mild that it goes unnoticed, or perhaps shows up in writing really good poetry.
I also believe there is such a thing as a ‘well schizophrenic,’ or rather someone who deals really well with their few eccentricities. Some of these persons may just appear to be introverted.
I believe that there are many ways to deal with being different, probably similar to someone learning to live with chronic pain. Everything doesn’t have to be on the front burner. Some things we just get used to or adjust to.
I think the establishment puts out quite a lot of propaganda that says, the only way to deal is chemically or with professional help.
Now, I am not questioning the idea that once in a while professional help is needed during a crisis situation. What I am saying however is that, everything isn’t a crisis, and we are more capable than we give ourselves credit for.
I see meditation as a good way to start taking up our own reigns and slowly but surely training ourselves, our minds, to be less excitable or even less depressed.
Jack Kornfield (A Path with Heart, a guide through the perils and promises of spiritual life) is another good read for beginners. I like him especially well.
Q: Pg 51: “We note feelings and find that they last for only a few seconds. We pay attention to thoughts and find that they are ephemeral, that they come and go, uninvited, like the clouds. We bring our awareness to the body, and find that its boundaries are porous. In this practice our sense of solidity of a separate body or a separate mind starts to dissolve, and suddenly, unexpectedly, we find out how much at ease we are.”
I am not sure that we as a species would be capable of compassion without having first tasted pain. Compassion is very important because, no one requires compassion from us, any more than we ourselves require our own compassion.
I believe one big step on this path takes place when we finally are able to forgive our selves for not being perfect.
Many of our insights arrive like food for a starving man.
One thing that surprised me, was finding out how we store memories not just in our brains, but all over our bodies, commonly in our muscles, and they appear/manifest to the conscious mind as tension, and even pain.
Comments
Meditation is important, of course, and deals mainly with the "mind" aspect. Meditation alone, however, is not enough.
Depression is a physical disease. Diet and exercise are our greatest weapons in all matters of the body. I can't stress this enough. You need to move. You can start with something as simple as walking. Walking can touch upon all three components, mind, body, and spirit. Thich Nhat Hanh often discusses walking meditation, and I highly recommend his books. You must walk briskly, however, not leisurely, in order to get the endorphins flowing. That is our immediate goal. Walking is a way to break the chain and start developing positive habits. It will also get you out into the light of day, very helpful in battling depression.
Gradually, you'll want to move up to more rigorous exercise when you are able. Rigorous exercise is the best anti-depressant there is. Just like taking a pill, however, you have to keep it up. The endorphins will sustain you, and gradually start to alter your brain chemistry on a more permanent basis. You have to fight for it, though.
Diet is just as important. I think it should go without saying that if you currently use alcohol or recreational drugs, quitting those should be your very first priority. You need a clear head for this. Cut out those foods that are unhealthy and make you feel bad. You know the ones. Stick to the basics, get plenty of fruits, vegetables, and healthy proteins. I recommend a vegetarian diet, but if that's too much of a change then just try to make healthier choices. Depression can be related to nutrition, and you're going to want to make sure you're getting everything you need. Try a multivitamin a day if you're not sure.
Working with spirit is a more vague type of thing. We all understand spiritual practice, however, and whatever form that takes for you, be sure to include it in your plan. Understanding you are not alone is half the battle. Nurturing the spirit can be as simple as lighting a stick of incense and engendering a sense of gratitude. Whatever makes you feel good. Of course, meditation also touches upon the "spiritual" to a degree. Buddhist practice is probably the best there is for fighting depression. There's something to be thankful for, right there.
There is one exercise that stands out above others for me, and that is tai chi chuan. Tai chi is an art that merges all three aspects of mind, body, and spirit. I can't recommend it highly enough. It's impossible to be depressed while practicing tai chi. Over time, this ancient art will help you stay grounded and centered. If you sign up for a class, it has the added benefit of being a social activity where you will make new friends in a positive, relaxed environment. Traditional tai chi chuan is also a martial art, which will help you feel more empowered and confident. Tai chi comes from Taoism, which is closely related to Zen, and blends very well with Buddhist practice. It's a win-win-win all the way around.
Once you start feeling the joy of life returning, you must continue your new practices. This is so important. If you are prone to depression, it will return if you give it half a chance. It is a lot harder to have to claw your way out, than to avoid the pit to begin with. I should know, I've had to do it too many times. Just remember to take care of mind, body, and spirit, every single day, and soon you will be standing on your own two feet again.
Best of luck to you. Namaste.
~ AD
go back on the meds. Antidepressant medications are not a cure any more than wearing glasses is going to cure your myopia or insulin will cure your diabetes.
meditation, good diet and exercise will help and bring some improvement. But medication, meditation, good diet and exercise might lift the depression entirely.
I confused depression with unhappiness and I discovered they are waytotally not the same. If you are temporarily unhappy, then meditation, exercise etc are really all you need. If you are actually depressed they will never be enough.
And if you can safely take bupropion, there are fewer sexual side effects.
They are books about Acceptance and are easy reads with a lot of good ideas and strategies.
I hope it works out for you.
Sometimes one of the easiest ways to deal with depression, efficiently, is through the physical.
For instance, some small amount of depression can end up being touched off by low blood sugar. Lots of people have this and don’t know it. So drink a small glass of orange juice when you feel low can help a little bit, and every little bit helps. Worst-case scenario, you will be healthier and have fewer colds.
Or lets say you can’t get yourself to sit on the cushion and meditate. Don’t beat yourself up. No problemo, take it on the road.
In other words go out for a walk and watch your breaths counting an inhalation and an exhalation as 1, counting them from 1 to 10, and than starting over again. Usually 20 minutes is the optimum time to do this, not to say you can’t do it longer if you want to, and are having a good time.
This concentration on breath will break up your habitual engrams in your habitual brain, and the bad habitual thoughts will lose their power over you at least temporarily.
After a while you will become more skilled in turning your head away from negative thoughts. You can train the mind, just like a little animal.
The way that the mind works is this. It is what is called “One Pointed,” or has one thought at a time. These thought happen so rapidly, that we don’t usually notice this, and believe that they are joined in some way, like a film.
However, if you think and pay attention to the one breath very strongly while saying one (out loud is stronger, but it can be done silently when you need to) than breathe again, saying 2, etc, it will block the other negative ideas from manifesting.
I won’t go on and on. But exercise is good, any exercise that makes you breathe just a little faster, like walking rapidly. Change your breath pattern, and you change your thoughts. They seem to be joined in this way.
Music releases endorphins in your brain. Endorphin will elevate your mood and interfere with pain receptors.
Try combining these, even though each one has its own way of helping, just for variety. Like walking fast with music, etc.
Lastly, here is something that works really well. Have a novel that you read daily for a little while, the more exciting the better. It is like a little vacation from your self.
Hope this helps
S9
You are quite right in saying that any pleasure wrongly enjoyed, or overly used, can quickly morph into a form of suffering.
Therefore the wisdom words: “Everything in moderation.” Or even Buddha’s lessons about the “Middle Way.”
Perhaps even depression is an over indulgence in the passions, which begin as seemingly harmless stimulation and with over use, once again, morphs into pain and suffering.
Negative emotions are a little bit like food, in that they feed us on some level, and are so readily available, that it takes some skill on our part to use them judiciously.
All of life, after all, is a skill. A good and wise life doesn’t just happen.
I just want to throw this aside in: A favorite mantra of mine is…
“This too, will pass.”
Very often when we are depressed, it is hard to remember that moods are like the weather, and…
“Sometimes it rains.”
But equally true…
“The sun will shine, once again.” Always has…
So in this way, fear can often be our biggest, and bad-dest enemy. The fear that, our present terrible mood is our new normal.
S9
I think that some professionals are caught up in the whole idea of there being a manic phase to the ’bipolar’ problem. But, there is also a ‘unipolar’ manifestation of this particular problem, where the manic phase is closer to normal, but you still have the characteristics swings between the two moods.
S9
There are a number of factors. In many instances of mental health issues, medication does not have significant long term efficacy and can become dependence forming. In others, it is quite the opposite.
A study that was conducted by R.D. Laing some time ago involved a program called Sotaria House. They studied street people whose prominent diagnosis was schizophrenia. There was a nearby mental hospital where they had problems with demands on the system by these street people (in San Francisco I believe). The people would go into the hospital, get on their meds, feel well and be released then go back on the street, fall off their meds and end up back where they had began (it is called recidivism).
Laing offered an alternative to traditional medication. His Sotaria house did not offer medication, but rather he taught people how to live with their symptoms. To my way of thinking, he taught people a lot of awareness and acceptance. I cannot recall the numbers but they were striking. Recidivism amongst his client base was I believe below 10% (people not experiencing the same problems) and the medication approach was more than 80%.
From that sample, you cannot conclude the efficacy of mindfulness and acceptance for a population other than schizophrenic street people in San Francisco. What is compelling however, is that the dependence for that population solely on medication (the standard that tends to be used quite often) could not near match the power of mindfulness. It is also evident that there is an over-dependence on medication as an end rather than a means.
As was mentioned earlier, the most responsible and safest course of choice is to consider all possibilities and be fully aware of how you are being effected.
i've had "double depression" (ie, clinically chronic and major depression), social phobia and panic disorder for many years, and without exaggeration this package has greatly compromised my life. therapy has had a helpful but mild effect. medications and alt remedies have worked very sporadically, so it's been terribly hard to build consistency around them.
although meditation has gotten better and better since i started it this summer, i have not found it particularly helpful for depression. but today i felt that i gained a clue. if i may explain-
when i meditate lately i've found a strong barrier that i keep running up against- a kind of conglomoration of fear and physical discomfort. now, one day i intuited that when i'm able to get past these challenges i will reach the next significant level of meditative awareness. and i sensed that this barrier has a lot to do with my depression package, so there's a double incentive there, and that knowledge has really motivated me in my meditation lately.
which brings me to today, in which i was doing an exercycle meditation (for some reason, i've found that lots of things not 'officially' meditation have turned into meditations of their own accord, like exercise and trying to fall asleep).
anyway, while pedaling like vladek spiegelman i quickly sensed the fear and pain as usual and attempted to let it go, again as is usual. then after a little while i felt a small flood of loving-kindness energy directed towards me in response to my efforts, and just afterward some instinct told me to directly act on the feelings of fear and pain. so i screamed in rage and pain.
after that, i paused and waited a few moments. then, something told me that this was an appropriate response, and probably was related to some very old issues i've always stuggled with. so i screamed a few more times, in different intensities and pitches. it still felt helpful and 'right'.
so i feel that i gained a new tool today directly in response to my persistance in meditation. indeed i was shocked that screaming could be combined with meditation in any productive way, but i'm guessing that was probably my 'this is the way things are supposed to be' mind talking. on reflection, the release of screaming / roaring / growling feels similar to my attempts at imitating the deep, gutteral and powerful recordings of tibetan chanting, which i've always been attracted to. somehow there is a similiar mechanism at work in my case.
...
one other particular insight i had lately is that meditation is quite possibly the greatest hobby that a person can have. it has very little requirements in terms of tools and conditions, goes with you everywhere you go and does not require physical health or physical ability. there are all kinds of ways you can do it and the results you get are some of the most interesting, pertinent and self-empowering you can get from any possible activity that you can choose. in fact, perhaps the hobbies that most people really fall in love with are in effect bridges to meditation, just that people don't generally think of them that way.
I always found it interesting that R. D. Laing had a theory that schizophrenia may actually be an evolutionary step forward for man, and that it was just not yet been harnessed and used correctly.
This may not be a crazy as it sounds at first.
Some of the very wise and helpful shamans had powers beyond the normal, because of their increased sensitivities. They would have been diagnosed as schizophrenic today. They did poorly if they didn’t draw off from society, their villages, and often lived apart. But then they served their communities very well, when left to their own devices. Because this high sensitivity told them things like which plant would be healing. They did this by noticing what the more normal types didn’t see.
I wonder sometimes if our most sensitive individuals don’t also draw off today into meditation for similar reasons. I am not saying that they are crazy. I am saying that living closely within a group, much like our work a day life, maybe over stimulating to our more sensitive individuals.
These same individuals if not allowed to draw off often start showing symptom either physical or mental, because in my opinion their sensitive systems become both frazzled and exhausted. One of these symptoms, I believe, may be depression.
: ^ )
S9
It is my personal opinion that, you are going to make great strides through your use of meditation. I have a strong feeling about you, for some reason, and my insights, when they hit me like this, are very seldom wrong. You are a natural, my friend.
Some day you are going to be grateful for every single pain you have suffered, as it is going to provide you with rapid growth, and understanding. Your pain will be your fuel.
Or as they say, “From he who is asked much, much is given.” I fully know that this quote is backwards from how they usually say it, but that is also how it works. So be of good cheer.
S9
Since what takes place within the mind is a dream, I believe that everything, looked at from one perspective is of course an illusion, or a temporary figment of our imagination within the mind.
But when looked at from the perspective of being within the dream itself, there is far more going on and also possible, than most people will allow. These people are trying to be normal, and demanding that everyone be normal with them. They are holding on to an imaginary concept of homogenization of what is acceptable, simply out of fear; this being the fear that they are not actually in control. I believe and have witnessed over the years, that there is no such thing as “normal” or “average;” there are only vast varieties of uniqueness, and vast possibilities to discover.
It is advisable however, in good part, to avoid the extremes, and not to wander off so far alone that you cannot find your way back to sharing this world with others. But, a little of your own uniqueness is like a spice to enhance your life by allowing for creativity.
Sometimes truth comes to us packaged much like a metaphor, or a picture, or a personification, or even a sound. So, we might see a wise fellow, for instance, saying something wise to us, probably a product of our right brain, which isn’t so wordy as our left-brain. This event however could easily be an insight, or even a breakthrough of some kind, which is merely packaged in a unique fashion.
Take what arrives like it is a gift, it is. Be open and receptive, and than go on to investigate it further over time. There is no reason to run towards it, and no reason to run from it. Let it be a teacher.
There is a correspondence between our left and right brain across what is called the corpus callosum (a bridge of sorts), and a wholeness is to be had by listening to both sides of our brain.
S9
Well, it is about time. LOL
This really is a good thread. So many good points being made and I really respect people for coming forward to tell about their particular mental illnesses (challenges?).
Too many people are still quite uptight about it all, but I think that if people come forward and share it really lessens the stigma, at least in some people's minds.
My perspective on my schizophrenia is that when symptoms spring up it generally has to do with some sort of ego imbalance, which is why I've become more drawn to Buddhism. The Lojong slogan "All dharma agrees at one point" drives that idea home because the one point is that clinging to the ego is the cause of suffering. That's pretty profound. I think it was Pema Chodron who said that the ego is not the enemy and that you have to learn to make friends with it. If you can "make friends" with the unwanted parts of yourself, you stop clinging to them through attachment/aversion. Then again, I'm not sure about it being a beginner at all of this, but I'm curious.
yes, this is how i try to look at it, ie the hurts are the gifts. i came across this concept somewhere or other and it immediately flew across the room and velcro'd on to me. so that was that.
at the same time, i miss the earlier period of meditation in which i was only aware of random fluttering thoughts, distractions, and minor discomforts related to my seated posture. it was a more harmonious experience, although possibly did not cut to the core as much as my current practice does.
i've now medidated in at least four different states ('normal', while exercising, while getting results from the anti-depressant adderal, and while sitting under the cannabis tree) and the great barrier is always there. seems that there are no shortcuts around it, and the only way to the other side is through diligent effort, right practice, etc, over a goodly amount of time.
buddha, dharma, sangha, give me strength while i walk through this wasteland...
I don’t think many people realize that schizophrenia isn’t one thing (disease?), last time I heard there were 200 kinds of schizophrenia. The type of schizophrenia that has its onset during the late teens with the word salad etc. gets the most press. Also, I believe that we should understand that schizophrenia is a number line starting at one end with a form that is so extremely mild that it goes unnoticed, or perhaps shows up in writing really good poetry.
I also believe there is such a thing as a ‘well schizophrenic,’ or rather someone who deals really well with their few eccentricities. Some of these persons may just appear to be introverted.
I believe that there are many ways to deal with being different, probably similar to someone learning to live with chronic pain. Everything doesn’t have to be on the front burner. Some things we just get used to or adjust to.
I think the establishment puts out quite a lot of propaganda that says, the only way to deal is chemically or with professional help.
Now, I am not questioning the idea that once in a while professional help is needed during a crisis situation. What I am saying however is that, everything isn’t a crisis, and we are more capable than we give ourselves credit for.
I see meditation as a good way to start taking up our own reigns and slowly but surely training ourselves, our minds, to be less excitable or even less depressed.
Jack Kornfield (A Path with Heart, a guide through the perils and promises of spiritual life) is another good read for beginners. I like him especially well.
Q: Pg 51: “We note feelings and find that they last for only a few seconds. We pay attention to thoughts and find that they are ephemeral, that they come and go, uninvited, like the clouds. We bring our awareness to the body, and find that its boundaries are porous. In this practice our sense of solidity of a separate body or a separate mind starts to dissolve, and suddenly, unexpectedly, we find out how much at ease we are.”
Peace,
S9
I am not sure that we as a species would be capable of compassion without having first tasted pain. Compassion is very important because, no one requires compassion from us, any more than we ourselves require our own compassion.
I believe one big step on this path takes place when we finally are able to forgive our selves for not being perfect.
Many of our insights arrive like food for a starving man.
One thing that surprised me, was finding out how we store memories not just in our brains, but all over our bodies, commonly in our muscles, and they appear/manifest to the conscious mind as tension, and even pain.
Keep on, keeping on,
S9