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Words are empty until WE apply meaning to them. They aren't inherently bad. Even "Nice to see you" can upset someone depending on how it's used (i.e. sarcasm).
Something swearing is an appropriate way to express a strong emotion.
Different people are offended by different words. My sister flat out hates hearing the word "moron." I don't think of that as a "bad word." But I try not to use it around her.
On the other hand, if I say "oops, I'm a moron!" when I make a mistake, and you get offended... it might be you who has to look at yourself and see if that's an appropriate response.
As long as we're not using it in excess, i.e. to bother others, and not directing it at others, I don't see a problem with it.
Do you have a regular meditation practice? This discomfort is something you could use in it.
Fivebells, that kind of trite, pithy, and dare I say it dismissive and dare I say it arrogant reply I find really quite irksome.
Because it is so clearly off the mark in terms of what the thread starter had in mind and doesn't even attempt to answer his/her questions, it's just sardonic and plain rude in my estimation.
You know, that irk'll probably come in really handy for you, one day.
I don't understand what you mean. I described something as "irksome", and now I can't follow your line of arguing in saying that therefore I have an "irk" that I can use one day.
Whatever do you mean? I used "irksome" in an adjectival sense - since it is an adjective - but now you are ascribing to it the sense of a noun. It doesn't make sense.
It would be like if I said "Oh! Come look! But the sea is very blue today".
Then you said "You know, dear friend, that blue'll probably come in really handy for you, one of these fine days".
Why, it's sheer nonsense, is it not?
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited October 2009
lala, chill dear.... nobody's sworn at you, and you seem a little prickly and defensive....
The state of our conditioned mind is a good think to reflect and meditate upon.
Under ordinary and normal circumstances, I am poor at meditation, yet I find in times of intense emotional upheaval, focussing on that which irks me, is the best cure for it.
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand it's better to let comments slip, almost as if we should not bother to express ourselves or communicate at all. Simply shrug it off, and get on with something else.
On the other we have the intensity and passion of someone who is clearly bothered and feels it relevant to stand up and say something. Why? To further our understanding? To facilitate further discussion?
I had this problem at work. I brought up a small problem, with a new worker, and I was trying hard to communicate the structure of the work. He was trying to dimiss my comments, and laughing them off, as though it didn't matter. The offence in this instance was my frustration at being unable to communicate and improve the level of work we were doing.
This situation occurred twice and I rather got the impression he didn't want his 'happy bubble' bursting. As I pushed and finally broked through, he started getting defensive and upset, then tried shooting me down in flames as if we were playing some sort of one-upmanship game, scoring points on one another.
Now this turned out alright, but I had to bring up these issues with him, and partly I had to keep myself in check for being too serious and creating mountains out of molehills. But his whole attitude of party on, put on a happy face, and whistle while you work... don't get me wrong I strongly agree with high morale in the workforce, and yet his temperament was far too dreamy because he wasn't paying attention. And sometimes I would get embroiled in his own happy chattyness, not get anything done, then I was the one that wanted to dismiss him.
Swearing is not something that i would do in public, though i have used swear words in my own home. I think in certain circumstances it slips out. For instance if i am in a lot of pain that day, i have been known to go off in a little rant for a few minutes, during which swear words come out. They're not aimed at anyone, more at illness (if there has to be a target)
I dont think im offended at seeing them on a forum, but it sometimes just isnt necessary to the conversation i guess. I think in this day and age, due to media (films especially) i have become a little desensitized. I listen to rap music too, so its part of the norm, i don't even notice it. That said, im in no way going to copy and paste the lyrics on a forum.
So i guess that concludes that i swear at home, when im in pain. But i wont paste rap lyrics on your forum.
I'm only saying that the west seams to be more strict about one word or another being any different (maybe I'm wrong) My point is that the dreaded 7 words (fuck, shit, piss, cunt, cocksucker, mother fucker, and Tits) all have synonyms meaning the same thing which are perfectly accepted in "civilized society, so now all you can say you find offensive is what the word sound like.
Hi jesse
I dont think its about being strict I think its about being respectful to others. We all know these words and equally we all know the synonyms to replace them.:D
I too admit to using some of these words occasionally, espeically at times of stress!!! But mostly I do so in the privacy of my own home. I try really hard not to do so in public, because I do not want to upset or offend others .
Our language has such a wide and beautiful vocabulary of words it regrettable that through laziness or need for impact we resort to such coarseness.
I was not offended.. but slightly surprised and disappointed to see them used on the forum, surely we are bombarded from all fronts with this vulgarity every day of our lives. I see the forum as a peaceful sanctuary from an otherwise frantic and disturbing world and feel such words have no place here.
For the same reason I wouldnt want to have motorbikes zooming around the lounge area!!
Our language has such a wide and beautiful vocabulary of words it regrettable that through laziness or need for impact we resort to such coarseness.
Very well said... and to think that this beautiful language has been corrupted and bastardized by the current generations (Kids aren't even taught how to speel anymore). Like, Innit, dollaz, Man...
It SHOULD be shocking, I don't know, did people in the 18th and nineteenth century, without any education, speak any worse? it seems like there's no excuse anymore for bad language, and yet some things have degenerated.
For goodness sake, we live in an age of communication, and access to so much information? Doesn't add up...
I have a feeling that because of this huge influx of new members, I'm gonna have to sit down and write a big "this is the way we do things around here" kind of thing.
On newbuddhist: Swearing is fine. If you don't like that, I'm sorry, there are plenty of other sites out there that don't allow swearing or you can start your own site and do whatever you'd like.
Our language has such a wide and beautiful vocabulary of words it regrettable that through laziness or need for impact we resort to such coarseness.
It's regrettable that some words aren't considered beautiful simply because we choose not to see them that way. I mean, poor i, h, t, and s just drew the short straw one day and ended up as "shit" instead of "hits."
I recall a rather insightful quote from Patrul Rinpoche... how did it go...
"Remember the example of the old cow-
she's content to live in a barn.
You have to eat, sleep, and shit-
that's unavoidable-
beyond that is none of your business."
Whoa whoa whoa, a Buddhist Master said that? ;] And he's Tibetan... you should look into some Zen teachings. XD
Words are just words. There's no reason for particular ones to automatically offend you. Sometimes swearing might be appropriate, even within Buddhism. Sometimes it might not be. Sometimes the most innocent of words will offend someone, too.
How did that comic go...
World: "Let's be friends."
George Bush: "Them's fightin' words!"
You can say it's vulgar, but you can't say it's common or uneducated. Vulgar does not have to equal offensive. BTW, I'm laughing my pants off over here. Sorry for continuing this ridiculously long thread, but after Brian's post I just couldn't help myself; there is more than a little Puck in me:
KATHARINA
Moved! in good time: let him that moved you hither
Remove you hence: I knew you at the first
You were a moveable.
PETRUCHIO
Why, what's a moveable?
KATHARINA
A join'd-stool.
PETRUCHIO
Thou hast hit it: come, sit on me.
KATHARINA
Asses are made to bear, and so are you.
PETRUCHIO
Women are made to bear, and so are you.
KATHARINA
No such jade as you, if me you mean.
PETRUCHIO
Alas! good Kate, I will not burden thee;
For, knowing thee to be but young and light--
KATHARINA
Yes; keep you warm.
PETRUCHIO
Marry, so I mean, sweet Katharina, in thy bed:
And therefore, setting all this chat aside,
Thus in plain terms: your father hath consented
That you shall be my wife; your dowry 'greed on;
And, Will you, nill you, I will marry you.
0
Barrasoto zenniewandering in a cloud in beautiful, bucolic Victoria BC, on the wacky left coast of CanadaVeteran
I recall a rather insightful quote from Patrul Rinpoche... how did it go...
"Remember the example of the old cow-
she's content to live in a barn.
You have to eat, sleep, and shit-
that's unavoidable-
beyond that is none of your business."
Whoa whoa whoa, a Buddhist Master said that? ;] And he's Tibetan... you should look into some Zen teachings. XD
Don't you get that talking about the bodily function - "shitting" is quite different than saying to someone " You asshole, you are nothing but a little shit" or saying, in the hearing of your sweet elderly neighbour - "Shit, the newspaper didn't get delivered today!". In the latter examples the word is gratuitous, offensive, and intended to shock.
The alternatives to the latter examples are: "My friend, it really frustrates me when you do what you did" - or - "I wonder why the newspaper is not getting delivered on time? I like to look at the stock quotes before I go to work, and now I have to find another way to get the information".....
As previously mentioned on this site, the precept of "Right Speech" is intended for us to think about what we say and to use the appropriate words for the situation. In some situations, like when you're at home and you hit your thumb with a hammer, the air can turn blue. But when you're visiting your granny and hanging a picture on her wall and do the same thing, you just say - "boy, that was stupid of me..."
Don't you get that talking about the bodily function - "shitting" is quite different than saying to someone " You asshole, you are nothing but a little shit" or saying, in the hearing of your sweet elderly neighbour - "Shit, the newspaper didn't get delivered today!". In the latter examples the word is gratuitous, offensive, and intended to shock.
I seriously doubt the sweet elderly lady is intending to shock anyone there. These are "vulgar" words and "vulgar" is simply another word for "common". To many people it's just a part of normal, everyday, common speech.
Does anyone know if there's a 'beating the dead horse' smiley, or maybe a 'going round in circles' smiley?
I mean what's the point of trying to communicate and interact when all you have is a bunch of insulated viewpoints, repeated over and over.
That's right I read it the first time, and the second, and it still hasn't 'expanded' my worldview.
Sorry for not being blase enough about this issue and having an agenda.
Vulgarity is NOT the whole story... bad language is much more than that, irrespective of what words you use, they're more than a bunch of arbitrary shapes and pixels and sounds. We're not chimpanzees...
Yeah, ok, people SWEAR I get that, but there's definitely certain things I would NOT say to anyone here (coz I'd probably get booted)
NOR would it facilitate my or your understanding of anything.
If the only thing is does mean is heightened arousal and feeling then we might all as well swing from the rafters SCREECHING and slinging feces at one another, like our common ancestors probably did.
Anyone seen the South Park movie? The scene where Mr. Garrison "teaches" the children to use other words in place of swear words? Classic. "Don't say shit, say poo, like this food takes like poo!"
Don't you get that talking about the bodily function - "shitting" is quite different than saying to someone " You asshole, you are nothing but a little shit" or saying, in the hearing of your sweet elderly neighbour - "Shit, the newspaper didn't get delivered today!". In the latter examples the word is gratuitous, offensive, and intended to shock.
The alternatives to the latter examples are: "My friend, it really frustrates me when you do what you did" - or - "I wonder why the newspaper is not getting delivered on time? I like to look at the stock quotes before I go to work, and now I have to find another way to get the information".....
As previously mentioned on this site, the precept of "Right Speech" is intended for us to think about what we say and to use the appropriate words for the situation. In some situations, like when you're at home and you hit your thumb with a hammer, the air can turn blue. But when you're visiting your granny and hanging a picture on her wall and do the same thing, you just say - "boy, that was stupid of me..." <!-- / message -->
Ma'am, yes I do, that's why I also said in that same post you just quoted:
"Words are just words. There's no reason for particular ones to automatically offend you. Sometimes swearing might be appropriate, even within Buddhism. Sometimes it might not be. Sometimes the most innocent of words will offend someone, too, (and shouldn't be said)."
The OP of this Topic said that any swearing here offended her, and I was responding to that statement. If you had read my post in its entirety you would not have found a need to write out that big response because you'd see that I agree.
Comments
Words are empty until WE apply meaning to them. They aren't inherently bad. Even "Nice to see you" can upset someone depending on how it's used (i.e. sarcasm).
Something swearing is an appropriate way to express a strong emotion.
Different people are offended by different words. My sister flat out hates hearing the word "moron." I don't think of that as a "bad word." But I try not to use it around her.
On the other hand, if I say "oops, I'm a moron!" when I make a mistake, and you get offended... it might be you who has to look at yourself and see if that's an appropriate response.
As long as we're not using it in excess, i.e. to bother others, and not directing it at others, I don't see a problem with it.
Namaste.
Fivebells, that kind of trite, pithy, and dare I say it dismissive and dare I say it arrogant reply I find really quite irksome.
Because it is so clearly off the mark in terms of what the thread starter had in mind and doesn't even attempt to answer his/her questions, it's just sardonic and plain rude in my estimation.
I don't understand what you mean. I described something as "irksome", and now I can't follow your line of arguing in saying that therefore I have an "irk" that I can use one day.
Whatever do you mean? I used "irksome" in an adjectival sense - since it is an adjective - but now you are ascribing to it the sense of a noun. It doesn't make sense.
It would be like if I said "Oh! Come look! But the sea is very blue today".
Then you said "You know, dear friend, that blue'll probably come in really handy for you, one of these fine days".
Why, it's sheer nonsense, is it not?
The state of our conditioned mind is a good think to reflect and meditate upon.
Under ordinary and normal circumstances, I am poor at meditation, yet I find in times of intense emotional upheaval, focussing on that which irks me, is the best cure for it.
On the other we have the intensity and passion of someone who is clearly bothered and feels it relevant to stand up and say something. Why? To further our understanding? To facilitate further discussion?
I had this problem at work. I brought up a small problem, with a new worker, and I was trying hard to communicate the structure of the work. He was trying to dimiss my comments, and laughing them off, as though it didn't matter. The offence in this instance was my frustration at being unable to communicate and improve the level of work we were doing.
This situation occurred twice and I rather got the impression he didn't want his 'happy bubble' bursting. As I pushed and finally broked through, he started getting defensive and upset, then tried shooting me down in flames as if we were playing some sort of one-upmanship game, scoring points on one another.
Now this turned out alright, but I had to bring up these issues with him, and partly I had to keep myself in check for being too serious and creating mountains out of molehills. But his whole attitude of party on, put on a happy face, and whistle while you work... don't get me wrong I strongly agree with high morale in the workforce, and yet his temperament was far too dreamy because he wasn't paying attention. And sometimes I would get embroiled in his own happy chattyness, not get anything done, then I was the one that wanted to dismiss him.
Any thoughts?
I think in certain circumstances it slips out. For instance if i am in a lot of pain that day, i have been known to go off in a little rant for a few minutes, during which swear words come out. They're not aimed at anyone, more at illness (if there has to be a target)
I dont think im offended at seeing them on a forum, but it sometimes just isnt necessary to the conversation i guess.
I think in this day and age, due to media (films especially) i have become a little desensitized.
I listen to rap music too, so its part of the norm, i don't even notice it.
That said, im in no way going to copy and paste the lyrics on a forum.
So i guess that concludes that i swear at home, when im in pain.
But i wont paste rap lyrics on your forum.
Hi jesse
I dont think its about being strict I think its about being respectful to others. We all know these words and equally we all know the synonyms to replace them.:D
I too admit to using some of these words occasionally, espeically at times of stress!!! But mostly I do so in the privacy of my own home. I try really hard not to do so in public, because I do not want to upset or offend others .
Our language has such a wide and beautiful vocabulary of words it regrettable that through laziness or need for impact we resort to such coarseness.
I was not offended.. but slightly surprised and disappointed to see them used on the forum, surely we are bombarded from all fronts with this vulgarity every day of our lives. I see the forum as a peaceful sanctuary from an otherwise frantic and disturbing world and feel such words have no place here.
For the same reason I wouldnt want to have motorbikes zooming around the lounge area!!
Medusa
Very well said... and to think that this beautiful language has been corrupted and bastardized by the current generations (Kids aren't even taught how to speel anymore). Like, Innit, dollaz, Man...
It SHOULD be shocking, I don't know, did people in the 18th and nineteenth century, without any education, speak any worse? it seems like there's no excuse anymore for bad language, and yet some things have degenerated.
For goodness sake, we live in an age of communication, and access to so much information? Doesn't add up...
On newbuddhist: Swearing is fine. If you don't like that, I'm sorry, there are plenty of other sites out there that don't allow swearing or you can start your own site and do whatever you'd like.
Shit cock balls. Dick. Dick. Banana. Green. Corpuscle. Mennonite. Gerbil. Beans.
They're all just words, people.
Good to know. I had been holding back.
It's regrettable that some words aren't considered beautiful simply because we choose not to see them that way. I mean, poor i, h, t, and s just drew the short straw one day and ended up as "shit" instead of "hits."
I recall a rather insightful quote from Patrul Rinpoche... how did it go...
"Remember the example of the old cow-
she's content to live in a barn.
You have to eat, sleep, and shit-
that's unavoidable-
beyond that is none of your business."
Whoa whoa whoa, a Buddhist Master said that? ;] And he's Tibetan... you should look into some Zen teachings. XD
Words are just words. There's no reason for particular ones to automatically offend you. Sometimes swearing might be appropriate, even within Buddhism. Sometimes it might not be. Sometimes the most innocent of words will offend someone, too.
How did that comic go...
World: "Let's be friends."
George Bush: "Them's fightin' words!"
KATHARINA
Moved! in good time: let him that moved you hither
Remove you hence: I knew you at the first
You were a moveable.
PETRUCHIO
Why, what's a moveable?
KATHARINA
A join'd-stool.
PETRUCHIO
Thou hast hit it: come, sit on me.
KATHARINA
Asses are made to bear, and so are you.
PETRUCHIO
Women are made to bear, and so are you.
KATHARINA
No such jade as you, if me you mean.
PETRUCHIO
Alas! good Kate, I will not burden thee;
For, knowing thee to be but young and light--
KATHARINA
Yes; keep you warm.
PETRUCHIO
Marry, so I mean, sweet Katharina, in thy bed:
And therefore, setting all this chat aside,
Thus in plain terms: your father hath consented
That you shall be my wife; your dowry 'greed on;
And, Will you, nill you, I will marry you.
Don't you get that talking about the bodily function - "shitting" is quite different than saying to someone " You asshole, you are nothing but a little shit" or saying, in the hearing of your sweet elderly neighbour - "Shit, the newspaper didn't get delivered today!". In the latter examples the word is gratuitous, offensive, and intended to shock.
The alternatives to the latter examples are: "My friend, it really frustrates me when you do what you did" - or - "I wonder why the newspaper is not getting delivered on time? I like to look at the stock quotes before I go to work, and now I have to find another way to get the information".....
As previously mentioned on this site, the precept of "Right Speech" is intended for us to think about what we say and to use the appropriate words for the situation. In some situations, like when you're at home and you hit your thumb with a hammer, the air can turn blue. But when you're visiting your granny and hanging a picture on her wall and do the same thing, you just say - "boy, that was stupid of me..."
I seriously doubt the sweet elderly lady is intending to shock anyone there. These are "vulgar" words and "vulgar" is simply another word for "common". To many people it's just a part of normal, everyday, common speech.
I mean what's the point of trying to communicate and interact when all you have is a bunch of insulated viewpoints, repeated over and over.
That's right I read it the first time, and the second, and it still hasn't 'expanded' my worldview.
Sorry for not being blase enough about this issue and having an agenda.
Vulgarity is NOT the whole story... bad language is much more than that, irrespective of what words you use, they're more than a bunch of arbitrary shapes and pixels and sounds. We're not chimpanzees...
Yeah, ok, people SWEAR I get that, but there's definitely certain things I would NOT say to anyone here (coz I'd probably get booted)
NOR would it facilitate my or your understanding of anything.
If the only thing is does mean is heightened arousal and feeling then we might all as well swing from the rafters SCREECHING and slinging feces at one another, like our common ancestors probably did.
POOey! I'm done..
Well, get the Puck out!
Anyone seen the South Park movie? The scene where Mr. Garrison "teaches" the children to use other words in place of swear words? Classic. "Don't say shit, say poo, like this food takes like poo!"
It's all perception, folks. Nothing more.
Palzang
Ma'am, yes I do, that's why I also said in that same post you just quoted:
"Words are just words. There's no reason for particular ones to automatically offend you. Sometimes swearing might be appropriate, even within Buddhism. Sometimes it might not be. Sometimes the most innocent of words will offend someone, too, (and shouldn't be said)."
The OP of this Topic said that any swearing here offended her, and I was responding to that statement. If you had read my post in its entirety you would not have found a need to write out that big response because you'd see that I agree.
Take care.