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Awesome interview with Ajahn Brahm (unrelated to recent ordination controversy)

fivebellsfivebells Veteran
edited March 2010 in Buddhism Today
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Comments

  • MrsCoganMrsCogan
    edited November 2009
    what a delightful guy! thank you!
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Very funny. :)
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Yes i enjoyed that video he seems to be a good teacher and a very down to earth guy, how wonderful people have a teacher like him.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Ajahn Brahm puts things in a very direct and real-to-life way. Not that Buddhism isn't the same, but he doesn't try expounding the literal words of the Dhamma, but instead teaches lessons based on the wisdom he has gained from it. That's the difference between a Buddhist in practice and a mere scholar of Buddhist texts, methinks. I like this guy. ;)

    BTW, he has audio talks here: http://www.buddhanet.net/audio-talks.htm / I particularly like the ones about Freedom, Enlightenment and Buddhism & Science.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Apart from exhibiting alot of metta, happiness & freedom, he also teaches alot of superstition.

    :)
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    I don't recall him exhibiting 'superstition' outside of what is considered part of the Buddhist tradition, which of course seems like superstition to non-Buddhists.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited March 2010
    You're right, Dhamma, but that is irrelevant to the point he was making in this video.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    ...Buddhist tradition, which of course seems like superstition to non-Buddhists....
    Buddhist tradition holds many superstitions to many Buddhists.

    Clinging to one teacher as god is problematic.

    :hohum:
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Each school believes it is correct, but all can get along. What we view as superstition in this modern era of science may or may not be. Then again, science can't teach you how to awaken to reality, so it's lacking a bit of muscle.

    The question is though, what does Ajahn Brahm teach or say that is outside of Buddhist tradition? Anything? He's a Theravadin bhikkhu, so it's likely he teaches solely from the Pali Canon and from the tradition of that school, but even if he taught things found in Mahayana those would still be a part of Buddhism...
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited March 2010
    I'm not sure why Dhatu brought this up, because it has no bearing on this thread, but any belief or practice which is held or followed without evidence is superstitious by definition. What Dhatu is probably primarily referring to here is Ajahn Brahm's belief in post-mortem rebirth. It has nothing to do with the Mahayana schism.

    What people do is much more important than what they believe, though. Ajahn Brahm comes across very well by that metric. But thinking that way leaves you with less to gossip and bicker over...
  • MaxHMaxH
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    Then again, science can't teach you how to awaken to reality, so it's lacking a bit of muscle.

    Science may not be able to teach you how to awaken to reality but rigorous scientific study can often reveal pointers to reality. It is science that has revealed the constant change in all aspects of material existence. Without science we also would not know what we do about the relationships between energy and matter.

    Mathematics has presented us with concepts that deal with dimensions beyond our 3 dimensional world and outside of spacetime.

    Even though science may seem to lack muscle at this point, it is still has the potential to grow as man's thinking inevitably evolves.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Concern with "reality" is start of the problem. A mind looking for some kind of inherent existence first sees nothing, then to compensate it fabricates something. When seeing nothing, just rest. There is nothing more to do after that.

    (Which is to say nothing against science. I have devoted my professional career to scientific inquiry. But it's a completely separate domain, about which Buddhist practice has nothing to say or vice versa.)
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    What Dhatu is probably primarily referring to here is Ajahn Brahm's belief in post-mortem rebirth.

    I guess so. Not only Ajhan Brahm but a lot of monks of the thai forest tradition have that belief. I sometimes feel that it is more than just a belief to them.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Max: I completely agree. Science is our natural way of finding out how things really are as a species. Now if only science and psychology could investigate the scientific methodology of Buddhism and understand what they're missing. ;)
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited March 2010
    That day is coming, but it is at least a decade off.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    I'm just wondering how science would deal with Buddhism. The only data it would be able to obtain as "proof" of the awakening experience would be the testimony of those who have attained one of the four stages of enlightenment. Science as it is today is wholly unprepared for the supramundane that can not be quantified.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    I guess so. Not only Ajhan Brahm but a lot of monks of the thai forest tradition have that belief. I sometimes feel that it is more than just a belief to them.
    Deshy

    I would say it is the opposite. Most of the notable Ajahns in the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ajahn Chah & Buddhadasa, did not promote rebirth belief.

    In fact, imo, of all Buddhism, Thai is the most genuine.

    Below is a teaching from the The Supreme Patriarch of Thailand.
    ... His Holiness’ two books on heaven and hell are truly analytical view on the subject from a Buddhist point of view. As we are so familiar, in religious sphere, the concept of heaven and hell is a very prominent belief. In many cases, it becomes the goal of religious practice itself. On this very subject, His Holiness critically analyses that the very concept and belief of heaven and hell in Buddhism is a cultural influence of indigenous culture and belief. He states:

    ‘the subject of cosmology appeared in Buddhism is clearly can be seen that it is not ‘Buddhist teaching’ at all but an ancient geography. The concept and belief about it was included in Buddhist Canon merely because of strong influence of popular belief of the time. Later Commentaries further explain about heaven and hell in a greater detail distant itself from the original teaching of the Buddha. If Buddhism teaches such belief on heaven and hell it would not be Buddhism at all but an ancient geography. Buddha wouldn’t be the Buddha who delivered the Noble Truth and ‘timeless’ message for mankind.’ (p. 1) (end of the quote)

    He then shows in his teaching that the concept of heaven and hell in Buddhism are in fact symbolic, representing the quality of mind and spirituality instead. One can be in heaven and hell in this very earth and life. No need to wait until one dies...

    http://www.sangharaja.org/en_main.asp
    It is incorrect to hold Ajahn Brahm represents the Thai Forest Tradition. His teaching more represents the Singalese Mahavihara teachings of Buddhaghosa. I could post many teachings of Ajahn Chah conflicting with those of Ajahn Brahm.

    :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how science would deal with Buddhism. The only data it would be able to obtain as "proof" of the awakening experience would be the testimony of those who have attained one of the four stages of enlightenment. Science as it is today is wholly unprepared for the supramundane that can not be quantified.
    Science accords fully to supramundane Buddhism.

    The Buddha taught all things are merely elements (dhatu), including Nibbana.

    The Buddha taught all conditioned things arise from & are subject to the law (dhammaniyama) of cause & effect (iddappaccayatta/paticcasummupado).

    What is science but the study of nature (elements) and their causes, effects & manifestations?

    To realise all things are elements (dhatu) is the same as realising all things are emptiness (sunnata).

    The current issue lies with Buddhism rather than with science.

    Most Buddhists are caught up in beliefs about rebirth and infatutated with disassociated mental states.

    :)
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Dhatu you somehow invariably find a way to make rebirth part of an argument where it was never intended to be. I mean that science, no matter how well it can describe reality, can not awaken the human mind. You can know everything that science states, and still be enmeshed in ignorance. Science can not give you realization, only following the path and with effort can an individual achieve his- or her own liberation.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Benefit can occur from another disagreeing with one's opinions.
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    Dhamma Dhatu wrote:
    Most of the notable Ajahns in the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ajahn Chah & Buddhadasa, did not promote rebirth belief.


    Absolutely. If I may quote Ajahn Sumedho from his excellent book "The Sound of Silence", he says : "The rebirth that I'm interested in is the rebirth that's happening now."

    _/\_


    .
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited March 2010
    nobody pointed to all of his video Dhamma talks.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA#p/u/84/rKxKGFw6B68

    This is the Buddhist Society of Western Australia's Channel.

    they have about 90, 1 hour Dhamma talks online.
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