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Do all buddhists pray?
I've never been big into prayer and was just curious.
How many of you pray?
Is it possible to meditate without prayer?
How many of you pray?
Is it possible to meditate without prayer?
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Comments
For what?
Do you mean 'pray' in the conventional sense?
Like Christians do to God?
No......
What would be the point?
First you need to know what the purpose of meditation is and the purpose and subject of the Buddha's teachings. From the the above link:
Anapanasati and vipassana do not involve any of this. It's simple mindfulness and awareness and the method is precisely outlined in the suttas. This is what the Buddha practiced.
not true.
Nearly all Buddhist traditions utilize some form of prayer as a meditative method. Rather than praying to an entity or god Buddhist prayer is more of an aspirational development of the qualities of enlightenment.
Prayer is most certainly a part of Buddhism and it has a lot to do with meditation.
I'll simply repeat what I already said:
To whom or what would a Buddhist pray? Buddhism is about taking personal responsibility for one's own true happiness.
That's more like positive affirmation. It's not part of all traditions and it's not part of meditation. It is not seeking external aid but a practice to cultivate karuna and metta within one's own self.
What exactly are you disagreeing with?
Aspiration and affirmation are not the same thing and in the Buddhist prayer tradition aspiration is a meditative practice.
if you were to preface your statements with the appropriate context or your view and your traditions view rather than making blanket statements I would have nothing to disagree with.
To answer your question, not all Buddhists pray and yes, you can certainly meditate without prayer.
The OP is not interested in prayer. There are plenty of traditions in which prayer has absolutely nothing to do with meditaiton. When I was still involved with Tibetan Buddhism, I was taught that praying was simply a means of developing one's own qualities and should not be seen as anything mystical. Perhaps prayers to deities is part of your meditation practice, but it is certainly not necessary--the method of anapanasati as taught by the Buddha does not mention prayer in any way. So that answers the OP's question. If others want to include it, they're free to do so, and clearly some Buddhists do.
"If a man could eliminate suffering by making offerings, paying homage, and praying, there would be no one subject to suffering left in the world because anyone at can pay homage and pray. But since people are still subject to suffering while in the very act of making obeisance’s, paying homage, and performing rites, this is clearly not the way to gain liberation."
I never said anything about prayers to deities, and just so you know it doesnt play any role in my personal practice. Whoever taught you that prayer is not something mystical was correct.
You're statements about anapanasati and what the Buddha taught are the opinion of you and certain traditions but in no way speaks for all traditions or practitioners and therefore should be prefaced with this recognition rather than blanket statements about what the Buddha did and did not teach. You are not an authority on all Buddhist traditions and what was, is, and was not taught and therefore shouldnt speak as though you are.
its just that simple, put your statements in their proper context in so others can see where you are coming from and I see no need for disagreement.
In the Pali Canon, the Buddha did not teach it as part of anapanasati. Perhaps other traditions, commentaries, or Mahayana sutras say he did, I don't know. I didn't claim to be speaking on behalf of all offshoots of Buddhism. I said, according to the anapanasati sutta, there is no mention of prayer. Anyone who reads it can see this for themselves. And you agree it is not necessary. So relax. Breathe.
Your statements were as absolute as mine: "Prayer is most certainly a part of Buddhism and it has a lot to do with meditation."
Clearly, it is Buddhism and part of meditation for some, and not Buddhism or meditation at all for others. Relax. Breathe.
If you cannot see that I was simply trying to say that it is not necessary to meditation or Buddhism, just as by your seemingly absolute statement you were simply trying to say that it has it's place in certain Buddhist traditions and meditation and can equally be called "Buddhism," then you are simply arguing for the sake of it and I must say: GROSS! :mad:
I trust we can leave it at that, yeah?
Edit -
Exactly. And I never disagreed with that. I just called it something else and in fact acknowledged it as a Buddhist practice within certain traditions. I believe the OP was talking about prayer in the more common sense in which people seek external aid by wishful thinking and believing the gods will answer their wishes. This, I don't believe, is part of any Buddhist tradition, and even if it is, the point remains that it's not essential. You agree that prayer in either form is necessary. I don't know what you're arguing about.
just because we disagree doesnt mean i am upset or that i dislike you.
and I'm quite relaxed, thanks though.
We express our wishes in many ways, but primarily we are addressing our own minds and seeking to implant a desire, such as the attainment of Bodhichitta, or the wish for others to be free from suffering. In doing so, we are creating and reinforcing the causes to develop such beneficial attitudes. A mantra may be used in a similar fashion.
My dear, you have created a sectarian issue in your own mind.
You said "it is a part of Buddhism and meditation" and I said "it is not a part of Buddhism and meditation." So you are being hypocritical now; my statement is authoritarian and misinformative, but yours is not?
Two other people said the same thing as I did and yet you are choosing specifically to argue with me. Why? You're reading my posts with bias.
And incidentally, I cited my source, you did not.
And if you'd pay close attention, we don't disagree. All I was trying to say, is that it's not necessary to Buddhism or meditation and not practiced by all traditions. :buck:
That's all. You can continue arguing with yourself if you like. Take care.
I've created nothing and you know it.
You clearly have a personal issue with me. If so, please PM me, and leave it out of the forum.
Thanks.
Yes this is very true.
All we need know is a match and on come the cap locks. :wtf:
Whoever ignites it needs to say a prayer first! LOL
Ever.
Oh i dont dare now in case we incite the wrath of the angry buddhist
Its alright some people have strong opinions as you can see.
Lmao.
I can have her add you on to th elist if you would like federica :rolleyes:
Theres also the practice of pranidhannas which are like clear formulations of what we wish for. By being clear about what we want we root out some conflicting wishes that cancel eachother out. Such as I wish to be happy but I also wish to always be agreed with admired etc. (because sometimes those things do not happen and if our happiness is based on them then we are not happy). By making skillful wishes we clarify ourself. Taking refuge in some way is a wish. Because we are recognizing the relative importance of refuge in the buddha as more important than if we have our favorite kind of coffee.
You know it. And shengpen knows it. And I do too:
I'm confused. Where did this happen?
Sorry maybe I should have started a new thread!
Source: Karaniya Metta Sutta
Interestingly, Buddharakkhita titles his translation "The Hymn of Universal Love."
Oh, every little helps, as the old lady said, weeing in the ocean....:D
And yes, what Glow said.:thumbsup:
As to whether prayer is part of Buddhism at all; it's not in the Tipitaka as far as I'm aware but many Thai people, for instance, do pray to the Buddha, and even ask him for things. Paali chants (which I at, one point, could read on my own) even talk about seeking to not anger the arahants or the Buddha as if he's going to get angry with us or punish us...:wtf: When I said once I feel uncomfortable bowing before statues (which was not a part of the earliest Buddhism, since they didn't even make statues until Greek influence) they even said "But you have to if you want him to answer your prayers... he even came all the way from Thailand and is pure gold." as if they believed the Buddha was in it. :eek: One reason I do not go to a Wat anymore and lost a lot of interest in Buddhism, since their idea of what it was had pretty much nothing to it that I found useful, meritorious or even mildly interesting, to be honest, it's completely indistinguishable from Hinduism.
Not so, 4 noble truths, 8 fold path, renunciation, impermenance, bodhichitta...and so on and so on.
Totally so. Notice I said "Their idea", the people at the temple. Their idea of Buddhism is praying to the Buddha, giving him offerings, etc. Never anything about impermanence or bodhichitta. It's not really any different then Hinduism, Thai animism has completely overrun Buddhism at their temple.
I did watch a documentary not so long ago about Thai buddhism to find that on one of the islands people where asking deities to kill one another ....facepalm.
Praying for inspiration and good conditions for practise is onething prayer for prayers sake alone leads no where. :wtf:
Regarding prayer being a tool to improve ones own attitude and aspirations rather than actually having an effect on anything externally, I remember a talk by a Tibetan Buddhist teacher which I attended. Someone asked him about praying to the Buddhas and Bodhistattvas for help in difficult situations - and he said that if one was in a sinking ship, one could indeed pray for help, but it would be a lot better to find the lifeboat first!
.
Yes, brilliant....
A similar adage I heard, which is a favourite of mine, is:
"By all means call on God, but at least row AWAY from the rocks!"