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Islam and Buddhism
Hello,
I find this subject fascinating -- the merging of Buddhism and Islam. I studied Islam quite extensively for the past year, and I wonder how the two can meet. Islam sounds so exclusionary -- it's the Quran and the ahadith with some fatwas thrown in to keep people on their toes. Afterall, Muhammad, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam, said that if Moses, 'alayh is'salam, were alive at the time, Moses (pbuh) would have to follow the teachings of Muhammad (saws). Doesn't leave much room for listening to Prince Siddhartha, I'd think.
e.g. You have Bilal Phillips clearly laying out the "true path" as being the Salafi brand of Islam. Great video here:
The Way Is One (Gotta scroll down a bit for the specific "The Way is One" title, but it's interesting.)
Yusuf Estes is another guy big in the dawah field, and he too can show some intollerance towards those who stray from the Wahhabi Way. I think it's his famous Wings of a Butterfly lecture where he really rips on Sheikh Hamza Yusuf. (I could be mistaken on the exact audio file -- listened to lots of Yusuf Estes, as I went through a period where I was driving an hour and a half a day for work, so I recorded all his lectures for the trips.)
Honestly, it wasn't the terrorism that scared me away from Islam, it was all the hate filled in-fighting and intolerance of variety. (That darn "biddah" tag getting slapped on everything from finger wiggle details during tashahud to the forbidding of eating halal foods not specifically eaten by the Prophet). Be that as it may, towards the end of my studies, I started reading about the various Sufi groups. Many seem quite bright and "with the times". And while I never heard them mention Buddhism as a compliment to Islam, much of the teachings and practices seem to resemble aspects of Buddhism.
I was wondering how many folks on this board are practicing Muslims and Buddhists? How do you cope? I must say I give you credit for your courage.
I find this subject fascinating -- the merging of Buddhism and Islam. I studied Islam quite extensively for the past year, and I wonder how the two can meet. Islam sounds so exclusionary -- it's the Quran and the ahadith with some fatwas thrown in to keep people on their toes. Afterall, Muhammad, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam, said that if Moses, 'alayh is'salam, were alive at the time, Moses (pbuh) would have to follow the teachings of Muhammad (saws). Doesn't leave much room for listening to Prince Siddhartha, I'd think.
e.g. You have Bilal Phillips clearly laying out the "true path" as being the Salafi brand of Islam. Great video here:
The Way Is One (Gotta scroll down a bit for the specific "The Way is One" title, but it's interesting.)
Yusuf Estes is another guy big in the dawah field, and he too can show some intollerance towards those who stray from the Wahhabi Way. I think it's his famous Wings of a Butterfly lecture where he really rips on Sheikh Hamza Yusuf. (I could be mistaken on the exact audio file -- listened to lots of Yusuf Estes, as I went through a period where I was driving an hour and a half a day for work, so I recorded all his lectures for the trips.)
Honestly, it wasn't the terrorism that scared me away from Islam, it was all the hate filled in-fighting and intolerance of variety. (That darn "biddah" tag getting slapped on everything from finger wiggle details during tashahud to the forbidding of eating halal foods not specifically eaten by the Prophet). Be that as it may, towards the end of my studies, I started reading about the various Sufi groups. Many seem quite bright and "with the times". And while I never heard them mention Buddhism as a compliment to Islam, much of the teachings and practices seem to resemble aspects of Buddhism.
I was wondering how many folks on this board are practicing Muslims and Buddhists? How do you cope? I must say I give you credit for your courage.
0
Comments
It is a great sadness that Sunni and Shia extremism have come to dominate the understanding of Islam. For centuries, there have been scholars, poets, story-tellers and others who follow a way often described as "Sufi" and which is more 'modern' even than the New Age beliefs.
I come from a country which has a tradition of being attacked by religious extremists. This year we remember the 400th anniversary of a Catholic suicide bombing attempt on Parliament. It does us good to read the rhetoric of the Catholic/Protestant struggle: the intemperate language and the certainty in "rightness" is scarily reminiscent of the sort of black propaganda which is coming from both sides of the Islam/Western confrontation.
And let us not forget that we are one week away from the feast of Saint Bartholomew. The description of the 'cleansing' of French Protestants by the Catholic League, including rape, infanticide, defenestration and many horrors should give us pause even today.
Today, although we still hear intemperate language from Protestant and Catholic extremists (as well as Orthodox), we are unlikely to start killing each others children by beating their heads against walls. We have laerned that extreme views lead to such abominations.
But we seem to be repeating the same process in the centuries-long struggle between the followers of the Prophet, upon whom be peace, and the Messiah.
I got to see Hamza Yusuf in Chicago back in May. He's a great speaker -- really enjoy listening to him. He doesn't seem to have a problem mentioning other philosophies. (I think any religion really is a philosophy, and it isn't worth distinguishing between the two catagories, but that's a little of quirk of mine
I recall browsing an Islamic message board this winter, where a self proclaimed buddhist came along. If you're interested, you can read the thread here. In my opinion, he was chased away. At least he never posted again.
I'd think a sufi forum would be a bit more patient and understanding. Personally, I don't understand why someone would want to ignore the good aspects of Buddhism. shrug.
Help me out here with some history. Would Judaism have been known to the Buddha? Did he specifically endorse or forbid any religion?
My take is that shunning Buddha is like shunning Plato.
Just for a fun PS, I think Epicurus and early materialistic philosophers are to the atomic theory as Buddha, Zen and Taoism are to quantum physics.
My friend is also a strond buddhist,whom(no offense) always check out other religion.So is it justified under Muslims Teachings to allow us to incorporate other religion teachings?
So, let's apply this to Islam
When you pray, breathe out. Breathe in. Open your mind and body to Allah. Let the light of Allah fill you. Let it push away everything else - all your concerns, all your aches and pains, all your itches and annoyances and daily stress. Do nothing but breathe and just be there, connected with God.
Does this not sound like what prayer is supposed to be? Please forgive my ignorance if I am wrong.
You can use the wisdom of the Buddha's teachings to make the practice of your faith easier.
Any faith that is based upon a deity - 99.9% of the time REQUIRE that you abase yourself to this deity and proclaim they are the only true god or gods.
Humans have made gods so jealous and cantakerous regarding other gods that they almost seem like children.
On one hand, I could say that Buddhism can work with just about anything because Buddhism is so open. It's the other religions that could not work with Buddhism because Buddhism allows you to question and seek the truth instead of blindly putting your head on a chopping block just because "the scriptures say so".
On the other hand, Buddhism can't work with anything else because Buddha's teachings first and foremost deal with YOU. Empowering yourself to remove suffering from your life.
Humans have made gods require that YOU rely on THEM for everything. I wonder if gods get tired of us creating them in our own image?
-bf
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/Publications/InterfaithInsights/II_IslamicBuddhistDialogue.html
Dhul Kifl is Gautama Siddharta?
Man this is new to me... And might really be shocking... I mean, Dhul Kifl is believed to be Ezekiel by the Christians! And all that Dhul Kifl ever did didn't really match what the Buddha ever did... Could it be another person? Or could we simply have mistaken it? Man... This is amazing... I'm not settling for this until I have more proof!
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34916&st=0
[NOTE! STRONG RACISM AND BOTH INTRA AND INTER RELIGIOUS ARGUMENTS!]
Tells why Ezekiel isn't Prophet Dhul-Kifl... Well I'm kind of confused now... I'm reading up now on what he taught... I trust the Qu'Ran quite alot. Meaning no offense, but although it claims to be a perfect book, I believe that some parts of it must have had been changed or omitted, though the main and core messages and teachings still remain. Most probably an ugly stroke of the Arabic characters or something that sabotaged one sentence.
And it states why Dhul-Kifl was the Buddha... Not someone else... Kifl translated is seriously where the Buddha lived... And it meant that he ruled that place. Well Gautama's father owned it, but well, he was supposed to be the rightful heir to it. Heck! This means we might not need to be afraid of hellfire if we accept Islam as something... Which sadly I don't really... I still cannot accept the notion of a God that'd punish his creation when all along He knew they'd be punished...
But the different teachings we preach is something else now... Unless the Buddha's job was simply to tell us to wake up from our dreams, nothing else. Something plain and simple enough for one to at least please Allah by not clinging onto this world. But rebirth, nirvana and all that...
Damn I'm trying to reason my way in Buddhism and Islam... Feel weird... Post more later...
The only time we are born is when Allah first created us. That's our original state... We had been given free will. Ignore predestiny a little while... Our first steps were the first cause and so the law of karma works... Karma here is not fate, retribution or anything... Simply cause and effect... When our life "ends" in our first "life", we never really die. We "carry on" our lives in another body. Here there isn't a notion of a self still. Nothing really maks us "self". I can explain in detail if you ask.
I can only daringly guess that Allah, may he forgive me for what I say in ignorance, deemed "life" as a "new beginning", unbound to any karma. Thus nirvana ends it all. We are no longer bound to this material world, and unite with something bigger. Not really Heaven, since the luxuries in Allah's Paradise would make no sense to the arhats and buddhas... But something lesser than Allah, but like Allah... Somewhere that is... Immune... Damm it's damm hard to describe.
Post more later.
Hehe... The Buddha said there wasn't any God... Maybe he wanted his followers to wait till Nabi Muhammud p.b.u.h, who would then impart the purest teachings of God? Or he was afraid that peple would run off to absorb Buddhism straight into Judaism and Christianity at once? Or a God would distract us from nirvana? Damn now I feel like turning to Islam once more... But if Buddha was a prophet, maybe there isn't any need to change after all?
We Buddhists are fantastic people I argue shamelessly, thus deserve not to be sent to hellfire if our practice fails. :rockon:
Trust me,this question has been in my mind since i find myself fascinated but not seduced by Buddhisim.Sorry by the way if I sound ignorant on some aspects of religion.
-May Your Faith in your religion run strong always-
As far as I can see. no one is suggesting that you revert to Islam. What we do here, in these fora about Buddhism and *****, IMHO, is exchange information and experience. So far, I have seen no proselytisation.
Ajani, forgive me, but you're not thinking clearly.....
Most structured religions have laws and rules with which to govern and ultimately exert some sort of control over its followers.... That being said, I do not condemn any religion for what they teach or for what people choose to believe or stick with. Religion goes 'bad' when, among other things, it causes people to believe certain anti-social rules are the way forward.
Buddhism is a cross between a religion and a philosophy in that its followers agree to themselves to follow a set of guidelines which are given based on logic, and every adherent is encouraged to use these guidelines with Mindfulness, consideration and a good deal of concentration and thought.... So it's not a question of you having to believe in Islam. Nor is anyone asking you to accept anything you don't want to. But for goodness' sake, don't close yourself completely to what Islam represents, nor to some of the teachings, instructions and general scriptures.
This was part of Argon's first post:
"I am a Muslim.One that has strong fiath in his religion......Me,as a Muslim,find myself respecting everyone here,regardless of your religion.The fact that here we are despite our hectic outsied lives,We find ourselves discussing about reigion.This means that we have strong faith in ourselves,in our religion......
May Our Faith In Our Religion Remain Strong."
To me this is someone who has a deep faith, but whom is tolerant and accepting of those who believe otherwise. In fact, he is an example of what everyone should be, whether they're Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Moslem..... Just because Islam has some strict governing regulations, it doesn't make them wrong right across the board....
Anyway , I am Anahita , from Iran and I am not new to Buddhism , ( have some friends who are Buddhist and a few readings about its philosophy in Uni ) but its the first time that I have decided to come toward it , for learning more , cause I found it a new way for reaching to the reality ..hope you can forgive my typos and flaws in grammar .. I am trying to become more better every day ..
Love
Ana
Welcome!
It is very wonderful to have the privilege of meeting you. I know that Iran gets a lot of negative attention in the American media, but I bet that you will find we all do not agree with that, nor share in their negative opinions. I look forward to anything that you may wish to share with us.
Jason
http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486
and please add something about yourself, if you'd like to!
Always very happy to have anyone on the forum, whatever their creed, colour or persuasion.. it all adds to the fun, the knowledge and to the information! And sometimes, us gals can go off somewhere and have a good gossip about the guys!!
Welcome!:bigclap:
How wonderful to have a member from Iran! I trust that, in this holy season, all is well with you and that we shall learn much from each other - and, especially, friendship.
Love
Ana
Some of us, with long historical perspective, regret the fall of the Persian Empire to the Greek rabble. Without that, we might have a more united world today.
Thanks so much Simon .. its so true and i hope one day we all can reach to this harmony in our hearts ..
.. Salam and Derod ( be always happy)to Ajani and all my dear new friends ! * hugs*
Its great to have another member.Look forward to seeing your posts and the knowledge that can be imparted into this never-ending journey of discovery and learning.
May your faith in your religion remain strong,always.
:wavey:
Thanks so much for your warm welcome Argon. its a great honor and chance for me to learn and practice the path of life after years among such a nice people ..
Ana
Ramadan is kind of different in Iran because we are from different branch in Islam that is called Shiite. One of our most respected saints , Imam Ali , has gotten killed in this month in 1426 years ago at one of cities of Iraq so this month is time for remembering the ones who lost their lives for keeping this religion alive . ofcourse except for the special ceremonies in Imam Ali's memorial , we are fasting like other muslims , avoiding from eating and drinking till sunset so we never forget the poor and people who are living in a difficult condition , for improving our patient against the troubles and shortages ..
Hello, Ana!
My name is Adiana and I would like to say welcome to the site. There are a lot of great people here that can answer just about any questions one may have. I know I have learned a lot from reading the different posts and asking questions. I look forward to getting to know you better. Again, welcome!
Adiana:wavey: :wavey:
Oh sorry about my misunderstanding .. did you mean what kind of food or drink people are using in their daily menu in Ramadan ? very intersting subject . I am trying to find some links in about it.
Originally Posted by Adiana
Hello dear Adiana and thanks so much for your kindness and warm welcome. i just dont know what can i say , thanks once again * hugs*
PS: sorry about posting late .. i have just started to read and study a very different subject and i have so many questions that i would like to ask. still looking around like a little kid and dont know where and how i can start ..
Assalamu'Alaikum
I find Rumi compatible.
"NOONE" says it better:
What is the mi'raj of the heavens?
Non-existence.
The religion and creed of the lovers is non- existence.
For those of you who enjoy the poetry of Rumi's:
Perhaps you would be interested in Niyaz.
I highly recommend this album.
It is quite beautiful.
Masha-Allah
Jason