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Buddhism and mental health issues

skydancerskydancer Veteran
edited May 2010 in Buddhism Today
I've been working through PTSD, which is an anxiety disorder, and using medication, psychotherapy and dharma practice to work it through.

I thought the topic may be interesting for some.

I'm a social worker and counselor by trade.

Comments

  • PaxPax
    edited February 2010
    My former occupation sky dancer. I saw great benefit from meditation practice for my clients with Borderline, really seemed to help center them and matched nicely with DBT.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Interesting Pax-

    We have a few things in common. I always used mindfulness in counseling practice and counseling has been a form of spiritual practice for me.

    My meditation teacher has told me to go back to that profession in order to benefit others.

    I'm currently co-facilitating workshops on mind-body explorations using sitting and walking meditations, guided enquiry, awareness through movement classes (Feldenkrais method), peace talk and focusing processes.

    sky
  • edited February 2010
    I purchased an audio program titled "The mindful way through depression" for my wife and I've had a chance to listen to it myself.

    I believe that those who want to commit to the teachings of mindfulness will benefit greatly. Effort is the key - listening to these tapes or reading about the practice isn't going to do anyone any good.
  • PaxPax
    edited February 2010
    sky dancer wrote: »
    Interesting Pax-

    We have a few things in common. I always used mindfulness in counseling practice and counseling has been a form of spiritual practice for me.

    My meditation teacher has told me to go back to that profession in order to benefit others.

    I'm currently co-facilitating workshops on mind-body explorations using sitting and walking meditations, guided enquiry, awareness through movement classes (Feldenkrais method), peace talk and focusing processes.

    sky
    I have been toying with the idea of returning to counseling...I have to say the peace I've experienced in my current situation would be difficult to walk away from.
  • edited February 2010
    I have barely begun learning about buddhism. I don't even know if I could call myself a buddhist yet, but I have bipolar and I'm hoping that meditation will help with that.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited February 2010
    BlackFlag wrote: »
    I have barely begun learning about buddhism. I don't even know if I could call myself a buddhist yet, but I have bipolar and I'm hoping that meditation will help with that.
    I've taken people to meditation who have had bipolar and other MH diagnosis. Mindfulness is a great help in learning to stabilize the mind and open the heart. Wishing you the best.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Jonn Kabatt Zinn has done a lot of work in mindfulness as an approach to various mental (and associated physical) ailments. He has had great success.

    In my own therapy and practice I am hearing similar things. My teacher tells me to welcome my experience. Which is the vajrayana approach to emotions. You welcome the emotion and rob the ego of the power to be your adversary.

    At the same time my therapist says that if I react strongly to a negative state that in the psychology it is believed that I have strengthened the likelihood that that state will arise again.

    Kind of similar.
  • edited March 2010
    I'm interested in this topic, especially because of recent experiences.

    About a month ago I put myself in a situation that I completely regret. It ended up being very traumatic and put me in a sort of daze for about a week. As time was going on I felt more and more like "something is wrong." I had racing obsessive thoughts and a feeling of being detached from everything. Things that I used to love to do were difficult to concentrate on and I was not getting enjoyment out of them. Just when I was thinking of seeing someone about it, I snapped out of it. I was very relieved and counting my blessings.

    However, just yesterday, some of these symptoms returned. Doing some internet research I noticed that the symptoms seem to line up with PTSD or maybe Acute Stress Disorder. However, the event that caused this is not typical, and I haven't seen a professional about it, so I don't really want to jump to conclusions.

    With the symptoms present I find meditation basically impossible, because I lack focus and end up obsessing about the negative thoughts. Has anyone else had a similar experience and have some advice on how to work this out? I am scared to go to a professional because I really don't want to start taking medication, and the whole idea of seeing someone is pretty intimidating.

    I was not able to sleep last night and I think my relapse may have been triggered by a week of drinking every night, leading to poor inconsistent sleep. I have known for a long time that I need to quit drinking for so many other reasons...here is just another serious one to add to the list. Maybe I'll actually quit this time...but i digress.

    At 8 AM after lying awake all night in a hellish state, I decided to run a few miles. It was hard to do considering how tired I am, but it seems to have had some positive effect. I still don't feel well but my mind is not racing quite so much.

    I'm holding out hope that I will snap out of it like I did the first time, but I'd be lying if I said that I'm not concerned about my relapse. I put myself in the situation that initiated this and so I can't help but feel overwhelming shame and regret.

    Any thought? Thanks. And I wish much love on everyone here.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    TGE--

    I'd recommend seeing a mental health professional. I see one regularly and he completely respects my Buddhism. Im recovering from PTSD.
  • edited March 2010
    For my part, I have Cerebral Palsy and choose to suffer from it leading to depression and so on. However sice I formally found Buddhism my life has improved tremendously. A friend sent me this link and I think anyone with a physical disability will find it helpful. Please let me know what you think of it. Thank you.

    http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/ada-buddhism.html
  • edited March 2010
    I have general anxiety and have been recommended small doses of anti-depressants. I tried one for a little while. The first day I felt excellent, but after the first day it barely helped and had costly, tiring side-effects that seemed to drag me away from reality more. I now don't support using anti-depressants unless it's absolutely necessary.

    My interest in Buddhism grew and I started to practice Pranayama on a regular basis, use mindfulness bells, and exercise every other day. I have felt much better than ever before in terms of anxiety, and I'm discovering Buddhism more and more every day. Two targets, one dart :D.
  • edited April 2010
    sky dancer wrote: »
    I've taken people to meditation who have had bipolar and other MH diagnosis. Mindfulness is a great help in learning to stabilize the mind and open the heart. Wishing you the best.

    Haven't made an intro post yet but seeing this is very uplifting to me right now... I have been diagnosed as bipolar just over 10 years ago. The counselling I was receiving was very unsatisfactory. I also had problems with some of the medications. I have been flying solo for the last 8 years and things just aren't working. Too keep a long story short, things haven't been working out and I really need to get my life back on track.

    Fortunately my bipolar is not as severe as some people I have heard of, but it's effect has been very negative regardless.

    I'll make an intro post soon and maybe shed more light on what I hope to find with Buddhism and what I have found so far.

    Now, back to my reading as I have been very eager over the last day and a half and think I am truly on to something that makes more sense than I ever thought possible.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited April 2010
    People wired their brain in a way that facilitate undesirable results.
    And are prescribed drugs that make the undesirable results less intense.

    It's unfortunate that our society almost force us to use drugs in the sense that most people cannot take a year off work to focus on themselves.
    They have to be able to function in society, work every days...

    But if you can afford to take some time to work on yourself, I believe that drugs should be avoided if you can still function somewhat adequately. Assuming you will be working on rewiring yourself.
    Since drugs change the physical reaction to the wiring of your brain, It is very difficult to observe what is actually happening and i believe it greatly reduces the chances of making progress rewiring your brain.

    I believe that ideally (in utopia), unless someone had brain damage, anyone whose brain would function normally if you would format it, should not take any drugs.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Like it or not some people need to take prescribed drugs.
  • edited April 2010
    Mental health issues can appear voluntary.

    They are not.

    As Sky Dancer says, some people need medication.

    Skillful use of medication is possible. For those who need it, it can facilitate practice.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Fran45 wrote: »
    some people need medication.
    I would say so, some people.

    which I believe to be only a very small % of the people who receive medicine today.
    Fran45 wrote: »
    Mental health issues can appear voluntary. They are not.
    I would be careful not to generalize too much.

    Mental health issues is a very broad term.

    For example, most depression are conditioning based.

    Not voluntary but a result of unskillful use of their brain.
    These patterns become habits which become conditionings.

    you can use the same process to reprogram the brain.
    skillful use of the brain which become new habits which become conditioning which replace the old ones.

    But this can be made more difficult sometimes, if drugs are used.


    But i do agree of course that sometimes, some people should use drugs, like i explained in my previous post..
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Tara Brach (a Theravada-inspired psychologist who leads the Insight Meditation Center of Washington, D.C. and wrote the popular book Radical Acceptance) recently gave a talk on Meditation and Healing Trauma (it's the talk from 03/31/10). This is actually her specialty and she has a lot of good thoughts on the topic.
  • edited April 2010
    Glow wrote: »
    Tara Brach (a Theravada-inspired psychologist who leads the Insight Meditation Center of Washington, D.C. and wrote the popular book Radical Acceptance) recently gave a talk on Meditation and Healing Trauma (it's the talk from 03/31/10). This is actually her specialty and she has a lot of good thoughts on the topic.

    Thanks for the link.
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited April 2010
    You're welcome Swanny. Hope it helps.
  • edited April 2010
    Yes Patbb, I should have phrased my post more carefully. :)

    Some people have some control over the emotional, cognitive and behavioural expression of some aspects of mental health.

    For example, it is possible for some people to decide not to self harm. However, some people need medication in order to eliminate thoughts of self harm.

    There are many theories of depression. I agree, conditioning is one theory and it may play a role in some individuals.

    Glow, thank you for the link. I look forward to exploring it.

    Namaste
  • edited April 2010
    hey, thanks glow, that was a really nice talk. i'll check out more of her stuff soon.
  • edited April 2010
    patbb wrote: »
    People wired their brain in a way that facilitate undesirable results.
    And are prescribed drugs that make the undesirable results less intense.

    It's unfortunate that our society almost force us to use drugs in the sense that most people cannot take a year off work to focus on themselves.
    They have to be able to function in society, work every days...

    I agree... I think western societies can be a bit backwards in this sense. The focus is all wrong, in my opinion. I think drugs can be very useful to some people, but in the majority of cases should only be used as a last resort (unless it's an emergency or in some other exceptional circumstances). Instead - at least where I come from - in many cases it seems to be the first thing suggested to try. A few different doctors have suggested drugs to me to help with anxiety. I've only taken them on rare occasions (like one or two times in the space of a year) as I don't think that's the best approach for me. At the end of the day, in my experience it's been meditation that's helped me the most.
  • edited April 2010
    Hi Pat,

    By saying that 'people wire their brains' you seem to imply that people with mental illness are entirely responsible for their illness. I may be misunderstanding you, and you have said that English is not your first language. Of course I accept that there are many factors influencing mental illness, but this statement could be regarded as lacking in compassion towards those who are ill. We all suffer in our own ways.

    There is also a major distinction between neurosis (for example depression and anxiety) that can be helpfully addressed with cognitive therapies and 'personal growth'; and psychoses such as schizophrenia - over which the individual generally has little or no control.

    Namaste
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Fran45 wrote: »
    There is also a major distinction between neurosis (for example depression and anxiety) that can be helpfully addressed with cognitive therapies and 'personal growth'; and psychoses such as schizophrenia - over which the individual generally has little or no control.
    yes, i tried to say this but i should have explain further.
    Fran45 wrote: »
    By saying that 'people wire their brains' you seem to imply that people with mental illness are entirely responsible for their illness.
    I do. Those whose brains do not have any physical anomaly.

    But I'm saying their actions (behaviors) were responsible for their condition.
    Not that they knew what they were doing and decided to create this condition on themselves on purpose.

    Most of these conditioning were usually not possible to prevent by themselves to begin with.

    Imagine a 2 years old baby.
    Baby hurt his feet and start screaming.
    Mom say:"awww poor little baby, this must hurt so much..."
    Later on grand mother come and say"poor little one, how come these horrible things always happen to you..."

    This is how this little baby just got conditioned to react to life adversity by feeling sorry for herself...
  • edited April 2010
    There is a very close link between biology and conscious experience. In depression for example, we know that serotonin is involved - but which came first? The depressive thoughts and feelings or the changes in levels of neurotransmitters?

    The other issue is that there is a big difference between clinical depression and a personality that consistently 'feels sorry for itself' and has a negative style of thinking. Of course, with these traits there is a continuum, but 'depression' as an illness is a real clinical entity.

    When I am not depressed it is easy for me to be grateful for my life and all of the benefits that I have; I can easily dismiss negative thoughts and spend my time productively. When I become ill however, the depression is all consuming and all I want is to die. No amount of willpower or exhortation from others can change my state. A balance between rest, activity and the right medication is literally life saving for me.

    Although I have acknowleged that choices can have an impact on mental illness, the belief that illnesses such as depression are solely the result of choice is unhelpful to me.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited April 2010
    I recommend Tsultrim Allione's book Feeding Your Demons. It's about inviting all the parts of you to the table with love and acceptance and finding their gifts.

    As for the issue about medication. I'm a meditator and I've had to take medication. It's been a part of surrendering to the truth of my situation. I may be able to eventually not take medication but I don't know yet. I may have to take some for a long time or most of my life.

    Both my parents were mentally ill ( one was schizophrenic the other bipolar) so low doses of anti-depressant, anti-anxiety and so on have been skillful means to keep me on the path of practice.

    Most people have no idea that I have Complex PTSD unless I share it.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Fran45 wrote: »
    the belief that illnesses such as depression are solely the result of choice is unhelpful to me.

    You programmed your brain to become what it is today, to be conditioned the way it is today, without even knowing what you were doing, without even trying you achieve this!

    Knowing that with mindfulness, you can program your brain whatever which way you want it to be, it would be an empowering knowledge to someone whose previous understanding were to put themselves in the "cannot do anything about it" victim spot.
  • edited April 2010
    Sometimes things look voluntary but are not. Would you tell someone with diabetes that they don't need insulin? The real skill is in knowing when medication is necessary. Of course it is not a complete answer, but please do not dismiss it for those (including myself) who benefit. Depression, PTSD, etc are not a matter of pulling oneself together, doing enough meditation and strength of mind. For many, they are real illnesses which have benefited from modern research and pharmaceuticals. Do not blame the misuse of drugs by some Drs (e.g. over prescription) on those few who need them!

    Be thankful that you have been as fortunate as you have and that modern medicine is available in conjunction with teachings such as Buddhism. :)
  • edited April 2010
    I should also add that the brother of HH Dalai Llama suffers from bipolar disorder and takes lithium (the recognised primary treatment for this disorder). At the time he was HH Dalai Llama's private secretary. I am certain that he would have taken advice from HH Dalai Llama about the best approach to his illness: a combination of the right medication and practice. The fact that HH Dalai Llama chided his brother for smoking, but not for taking his medication further illustrates his attitude to necessary medication.

    ...This advice is especially useful when dealing with illnesses. Of course it is important, first of all, to take all the preventative measures so one does not suffer from illnesses, such as adopting the right diet, or whatever it may be. Then when one becomes ill, it is important not to overlook the necessity for taking the appropriate medications and other measures necessary for healing. --HH Dalai Llama from Healing Anger: The Power of Patience from a Buddhist Perspective
  • lightwithinlightwithin Veteran
    edited April 2010
    I have mental health issues that I've dealt with for years and years, and I have the firm belief that I absolutely NEED my medication to at least be stable enough to live close to normally. Granted, the meds don't help me have an ideal life, but at least I can interact with my family in my home, which may not sound like much, but even this wasn't possible for me before.

    Finding Buddhism has been amazingly helpful and meditation has come to be an activity that I thoroughly enjoy. I'm doing my best to incorporate a more mindful approach into my daily life and I am hopeful that in time, I'll be able to be proud to call myself a better person in many different ways. The change has already started.

    I do agree that medication is not absolutely essential for most people and whenever someone asks me if they should get on meds, I tell them to totally and thoroughly exhaust all other avenues of improvement, before they turn to pills.

    I have tried to quit my medication on two different occasions, under close doctor supervision of course, and it just hasn't worked out for me. So after those failed attempts, I have come to accept that meds are a part of my life and they probably will be for as long as I live (which might not be long if you consider the effect the chemicals are having on my organs).

    All I can say is hang in there to those who need the meds, and to those who don't or haven't felt the need to take them yet, good for you because in some cases, quitting them is very hard. Best of luck to all of you.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2010
    I would just like to state that for those who do not believe people should take medications.... That they have a right to their opinion but I don't consult them as medical professionals, self-help gurus, spiritual gurus, or anything else. If someone posts on a public forum they don't agree with medicine I feel that is a great invitation to a dialogue and I found the dialogue above this post very constructive. The only time to me that I get really upset is when the person's opinion about medicine gets to the level where they are proselytizing to me and are ignoring my boundaries. But of course a forum's purpose to exchange views and I know they only want people to be happy.
  • edited May 2010
    The only time to me that I get really upset is when the person's opinion about medicine gets to the level where they are proselytizing to me and are ignoring my boundaries.
    Hi learned audience,
    According to my understanding, medication is still neccessary for the patients, and it depends on the level of mental disorder. It is still the patient will with a help of the counsellor. Insanity is a very touchy issue, the trust and will of the patient is very crucial to the recovery. Insanity also does have various category from deluded gene of past life, and their contact in present life. Buddhist should not take it likely unless you have the skilful mean to handle it.
    Getting upset and having a boundary is a very mild mental disorder as well. It is good that you should consider exploring Buddhism on the reason for this emotion and how to eradicate it. Meditation and volunteering yourself is helpful.
  • TreeLuvr87TreeLuvr87 Veteran
    edited May 2010
    This is a great thread.

    I also went to school for social work and spent some time counseling after college, though I had to take a break from it (burnout!) and am currently working in retail as a government contractor.

    I remember having trouble grasping the idea of spirituality (in general) being crucial to social work with many populations. I wasn't a spiritual person in college and felt that since I felt normal, anyone else could feel normal without a belief in some higher power. I've experienced much since then and have obviously found my way to a form of spirituality, and I can understand now how it can be used as such a powerful strength in healing, therapy, etc. Spirituality is the strongest component to my healing process right now. I've also been diagnosed as bipolar with PTSD.

    As far as medication goes, I was always opposed to taking it myself. I've never had a problem judging others or trying to figure out if they really "need" medication or not. My regular therapist supported my desire to remain free from medications, which was a huge factor in sticking with that therapist. However, with a recent crisis that felt too overwhelming, I decided to ask my general practitioner for a low dose of antidepressants and planned to remain on them for at least three months to give them a chance. Things have been going great, and I do sometimes wonder if it's more from the pills or from my personal work, but it's not something that should be worried over. Either way, I know that right now, I'm building some amazing coping skills and a strong spiritual base that will help me get through future struggles. I still plan to stop taking them at the end of next month, but also know that I won't truly know until the time comes.

    Anyways, point is, buddhism is awesome for healing and counseling.
  • edited May 2010
    Medication is essential and life saving for some people. I am one of those people and I am immensely grateful for the development of effective and safe medicine for mental health difficulties. Wisdom is needed to discern when taking medicine is right action and when it is not. Every person affected must make their own decision depending on their knowledge, their situation and their intentions.
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