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Is the United States really THAT bad??
I really enjoy this forum because there are so many people from all over the world, but it saddens me to read a lot negative comments about the United States. Having never lived anywhere other than the US, I guess I don't really know what it is like in other countries. Don't ALL countries have issues?? I have to say that I am very proud to live here, and although there are a lot of things I would like to change about the US, there really are some wonderful people here! I guess I don't really know why I am posting this....I just get sad when I read posts from people that live in other countries making negative comments about the country I live in. And nothing bad directed towards anyone that does make comments....it's ok to "call a spade a spade", but I guess I am just interested in hearing answers to "Is the US really all that bad???".
Any thoughts??
Kim
Any thoughts??
Kim
0
Comments
I don't want to get too political, because that just leads down a very negative path, but our current administation is really highly unpopular in the world right now. However, what most people in the rest of the world don't seem to remember is that really only half of this country thinks like that.
The US is an interesting country. It's like china in ways - so vast and composed of so many different cultures. Outsiders tend to see an aggregate of our country that consists purely of what the media tells them. So when 51% of the country (i'm paraphrasing here) says "we're like this", as far as the rest of the world is concerned, we're ALL like that. But step in, visit us, visit different areas, and of course you come away with an entirely different picture.
We're guilty of it too, though. Think of China. In your head for a moment, try to think of various things you feel, know, and hear about China. I'm not going to ask what you're thinking, but I do want you to analyze that for a second. Chances are, if you haven't been there, a typical Chinese person would laugh if you told them what you think of their country.
Now, for a moment, take yourself out of yourself, pretend you are Chinese, and think of America. Think of what you may know about America, what you may have heard, and what you've seen in the only way you can see it - from hollywood movies, the chinese media, and television. See where I'm going?
When it comes down to things like this, now the america bashers have more fuel. "Oh, the looting in New Orleans. The savages! The animals! Greedy Americans!"
I love this country, and friends from around the world who have visited me as their first time in America have come away with an entirely different perception of our great nation. I am against our current government, and I am against corporate greed, and I am considered by some to be quite "leftist" for an American, but honestly there is no other place on earth that I would rather live. People tend to forget the good things. I grew up in a relatively poor family, in a sort of defeatist atmosphere, where nobody really had any ambition. Yet I was able to start my own business and begin to create my own success. Others have similar stories. This country provides you the platform and opportunity to do anything you want. There are many places on earth where you don't have those opportunities.
I will quote something I wrote on another forum yesterday as my final closing comment:
1) Very competitive, which can make you neurotic. (Think cheerleader mom hitmen)
2) Deeply ingrained sense that America is the best and every other country is second rate.
These things can be forgiven. Your government, on the other hand...a sorry track record.
I, for one am able to make the distinction between Americans and their government.
Is America really that bad?
Americans: No, US government: Yes
Unfortunately the USA has a great many detractors, many of whom are very vocal in their apparent dislike of all things American. In France, the anti-US lobby is always expousing on about your role in Iraq..etc...etc. I have to constantly remind people that the US has come to the aid of Europe..at least twice in the last century, laying down their lives to protect Europe's citizens.
There was a comment made by the Japanese Admiral, who led the attack on Pearl Harbour, one of his aides congratulated him on his victory. His reply was.." I fear all we have done is awoken a sleeping giant "....how true, as such occasionally it has been a little clumsy and stood on a few peoples toes!!
I believe that you can be summed more by Roald Dahl's BFG, so don't let your often ill informed detractors get you down....you have a lot to be proud of :usflag:
Perhaps, it would be nice for some of the good things about the US to get a greater profile
than some of it's perceived mistakes :thumbsup:
Agreed!
I have not heard that comment before...it is very interesting! I am definitely proud of a lot of thing that America does and has done in the past. It's just hard to read negative comments about the country I live in. I understand why those comments are made, and that is why it probably bothers me, really. I wish our government was better, but heck, all I can do is vote! And I can tell you that I didn't vote for our current President!
I will tell you how it is for me....
America is a relatively "young" country. That is to say, it's history, as a unified country of different states, is relatively recent. Fair to say, perhaps that not all your states carry the same laws, inspite of being part of one country. So sometimes, outside of the US, we're fed conflicting information, and it can be confusing....
There are many wonderful things to have come out of America. Your film industry, and its long history, for example, is to my mind unparallelled...
I have never been to the USA, so my only source of information is either through the media, or through friends. And I do have some wonderful friends there, who, exactly like Magwang describes, are very disappointed with Government.... but I don't hold it against them personally - !!.
The USA, by its' very position as a World Power, is bound to come under the microscope. But let me tell you, and promise you, the UK comes under a great deal of fire too. Most British people are largely dissatisfied with the Government, and Mr. Blair in particular: For my own part, I believe he is trying to straddle two camps (dangerously) by being a close friend and ally to Mr. Bush, AND by juggling the European member issue!
The States has its' detractors, and as the situation which brought about these comments was in the USA, then the criticism was levelled that way too.
had it been elsewhere, that too would doubtless have attracted some different comments....
I could go on piecing together 'likes & dislikes, but I think I've said enough...
Oh, and by the way.....
France has more than a few gripes from me....!! The things I could tell you - !!
There are loads of other examples i could give you of how ass-about-face things are here.... you got a week?!? :type:
PS: What does this :pwned: mean - ?
Uh oh...I think this thread is about to take a turn down "Off Topic Road".
:PWNED:
(Doubtless I shall be using it myself sometime soon - !!
Thanks, Brian!
And now.... back to the studio....!!
No kidding...what a dumb American. :rolleyesc
No offense meant, hope you guys get what I mean...
I asked him about what he thought about America. He agreed that back home they do watch our tv shows and form much of their opinions of America based on them. He said he was surprised to come here and see homeless people since the image is that we are so wealthy. Even middle-class college students find it hard to get by, though.
He also said that what is considered "American Culture" is not necessarily unique to America. He said that perhaps it is just human nature that if you have the money and resources available to you, you eat more, buy more, buy big vehicles, etc. In other words, it's not that we are uniquely obsessed with these kind of things but rather we have the ability to do and get what we want.
It makes sense to me as we see other countries get wealthier and become more like the U.S. I personally think that much of what we consider "culture" is just how we cope with our society's specific set of problems. As problems change - or disappear - culture changes. Just a thought.
I could (if I were 'fey') take it as a sign that this is not the atime to be criticising the USA, just as post-tsunami was not the time to air criticism of Indonesia, Malaysia or Sri Lankan politics!
Well, it is the United States of America. It's kind of like calling the Republic of China, "China".
Also, it's in our songs as "America", many say things like "God Bless America", etc. And while the latter could be asking for their god's blessing on both continents and all the countries therein, it seems clear that they are referring specifically to the U.S.A.
Add to that, we call ourselves Americans - not United Statesians. Now, in Spanish you say estadounidense (or something like that) which would be something like United Statesian. And the teachers will correct students using the term "americano" instead. Some teachers from Latin America make a big deal out of it saying it's offensive that we act like we're the only Americans. Personally, I don't see a problem. If you're from Chile you call yourself Chilean, if you're from Canada you call yourself Canadian. People from the U.S.A. call themselves American. And so long as we are calling ourselves American, it makes sense that America works fine as a shortened form of the United States of America.
My PC keeps doing the same... I go to post a reply, and my little sand timer just keeps turning and turning round, saying that the site won't respond.... what's going on Brian, any ideas?!?
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT after you....!! :hair:
That said, and pardon the political statement, but the mess in Louisiana has pushed me over the edge, let me go on to say that it is always important to remember that you can never achieve happiness by taking refuge in samsara, no matter where you live. There are only degrees of suffering. Certainly the poor folk along the Gulf Coast of the US are suffering as much as it is possible to suffer, while on the other hand most Americans live comfortably compared to the bulk of the world's population. I have the opportunity to contrast life in Mongolia with life in the US, and it's obvious many, many things are much better in the US. But still, strangely, many Mongolians seem very happy. This is particularly true when you get out of Ulaan Baatar and out into the countryside where people live very simply and with very few creature comforts. In fact, my favorite place in the whole country is a monastery down in the Eastern Gobi where the people have almost nothing but are some of the happiest people I've met anywhere, certainly much happier than most affluent people I know in the US. But even here in this "paradise" there is suffering. You can't get away from it. Much better to take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha because there and only there can true happiness be found, regardless of where you live, what flag you salute or what opinions you may hold. Eh?
Palzang
This is a hard country to be a Buddhist in, I can tell you that with some authority.
The true result of the diversion of resources into military adventurism is a very angry chicken coming home to roost (now isn't that a fine metaphor! Worthy of a politician or a preacher!) It karma at a national and international level.
It saddens me to notice a degree of schadenfreude in the reporting and the international reactions I am reading and hearing. Although people over here to whom I have been speaking are deeply moved by the plight of the refugees, there is an 'edge' to the sympathy. Perhaps the 'edge' contains an element of fear. The general view over here is that global warming is already an imminent threat and, although Katrina may not have been a result of CO2 driven climate change, it does prefigure what is being predicted. If the US cannot help itself before tens of thousands are turned into war zone refugees, what are our own contingency plans? Have we, too, sacrificed our safety to the ambitions of the warmongers?
It was a very unfortunate tragedy, but it was merely a hurricane. They happen all the time. It was only a matter of when for New Orleans. You see, New Orleans it is 20 feet below sea level and is surrounded by the Gulf of Mexico and two rivers. The only think protecting the city was some levees and an old pumping system. It was simply a bad place to build a thriving city.
I must say that I feel terrible for those poor people that were trapped and lost their lives, however, I also feel that humans should think a little bit more about what they do. For example, don't build your city on a known fault line, don't build your city on the side of a volcano, don't build your city on the side of mountains where it rains a lot, etc. etc. It is a form of delusion to place cities in such a place expecting them to be safe, and then run around in a panic and confusion when a natural disaster strikes.
Americans, as wonderful as they are, are falling deeper and deeper into moha. They believe that they are the best, the happiest, the strongest, the most moral, impervious to everything - which makes things like this disaster harder to handle each time they arise. When things are going perfectly we are working, shopping, enjoying life and all it has to offer, but after a terrible thing happens (like a natural disater) people go insane looting, vandalizing, and thinking of their own wellfare.
9/11 is another example. People were completely unprepared for what occured. They were so shocked and surprised that something like this could have happened even though terrorism happens all over the world. We have sheltered ourselves a little too much from reality.
I know that most people here mean well. I love my country as much as Brian, but I think the people of it need to wake up from their drowsiness. There is great suffering in this world and we should not build cages around ourselves to protect us from it. That is also a form of moha. Suffering must be seen, experienced mindfully, and understood before we can truly be free from it.
Everything else that we do is merely a distraction from suffering, not freedom from it. That's like treating the symptoms and not the underlying illness.
The fact is Holland, being entirely below sea level has had a steady investment programme over the last 10-20 yrs in their water defence programmes, this has cost approx 15 Billion euros. My understanding is that successive Mayors of New Orleans on the advice of scientists and engineers from the US army have lobbied George Bush and his administation for increased funds to reinforce these levees, which were high enough but too weak. A gamble was made with peoples lives and sadly it now appears thousands may perish. We are hearing here of estimates of 16-20 Billion dollars, that insurance companies face in payouts...add this to the emergency aid package requested by Bush of 10 Billion...it makes finding the money in advance to be not only more cost effective but would have saved untold human lives.
Both the US and UK goverments appear to have blank cheques for fighting Wars, perhaps We the people should have a bit more say in what our money is spent on...but lest we forget Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I hope that, if anything good is to come out of this, it's that people welfare should come first and that the currency should not be gambling with peoples lives
Palzang
Frank Herbert in the Dune series continues this argument to it's logical conclusion.
Power itself does not corrupt but merely attracts the corruptable.
I agree with Elohim, the walls of International awareness, and hence world suffering, need to be brought down in order for the US to function as the responsible country it would like to be.
My heart goes out to those still trapped in Louisianna.
On the one hand, you get 'It's a Miracle', and Oprah Winfrey, promoting amazing people like Iyanla Vanzant and Dr. Phil McGraw; people who teach folks to work on themselves, face their demons and turn their lives around, with the most inspirational and educational diatribe... You have the most polite people in the world working behind check-outs, bars, restaurants and any type of service to the public; 'have a nice day' is usually a sincere farewell - !! You are the home and origin of New Age thinking, and have countless thousands of books, videos and DVD's exhorting people to create a new self....
Yet your gun laws defy belief, the violence I hear and read about is frighteningly increasing (according to statistics - and we all know about lies and damn lies....) and dare I say it, 51% of your population voted AGAINST G. Bush - yet he STILL got in - !! :rant:
The UK is no better, BTW.... I get asked 'would you go back?' and I always respond 'the way things are going? No.' The UK is picking up on the negative side of American culture and adopting it as its' own.
There is much that is positive about the USA, but as is always the case, 'no news is good news...' In my experience, the bad gets first position because it muscles its' way ito the front and shouts louder. There must be much that goes on in the States that is wonderful, commendable and praise-worthy.... but it gets shunted to one side and drowned out.
THis is why, as it says in the satanism thread , it's so much easier to be bad.... no Effort, no Intention, no View, no Speech, no Awareness..... No Problem - !! See what I mean?
While I completely understand why Brian would say that it's hard to be Buddhist in the States, it seems to be getting hard everywhere.
What a wonderful opportunity to re-examine the Self and rise to the challenge and refuse to be shoved into the background - Buddhists of the World - unite!! You have nothing to lose but......No-Thing - !! :rockon: :bigclap:
I hesitate to comment on the non-democratic elections (which we would be screaming about if it were Iraq or Pakistan) when we have a government which only received the assent of 36% of our population.
The only reason I should like to live for a few more centuries is to gain some hsitorical perspective on what I think is one of the most corrupt, abusive, genocidal and barbaric periods of human history.
So true...here's an interesting article:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html
My husband and I watched the movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" this weekend. What an interesting movie that was and I am quite surprised that Michael Moore was allowed to create that documentary! Has anyone else seen that?
Palzang, I have to agree with you completely that people that live so simply are much happier than those who "have everything". My husband and I often talk about how sad it is that in order for most people to be "happy", they have to have a lot of money. Our dream is to move to a small farm, far away from the hustle and bustle of everything here! Mongolia sounds like my kind of place!
My hubby and I saw it when it first came out in theaters. I can't believe W. got elected after so many people saw the flick. But then Michael Moore is a "fat slob" (according to his opposition) and therefore nothing he says could possibly true, ergo, W. is nothing less than the second incarnation of Christ.
Fede,
How are the French media reacting to the aftermath of Katrina? There is a degree of schadenfreude over here and we have a number of people saying that they refuse to contribute any cash to relief (although our blanket, clothes, etc collection went very well locally) while billions are being spent on unlawful war!
I feel that chickens are definitely returning to roost: the Bush administration has alienated so much international support, undermined the UN and been regularly beastly. Is it any wonder that their appeals to the depised UN, UNESCO and the ICRC are heard with deep irony?
The French in general, are far more insular and domestic in their politics that the British and American.... they're more concerned that Chirac is ill and hospitalised, and should the degree of his illness be made public knowledge, than whether the president of the USA is a national hero or a lying toe-rag....
UPDATE: The most recent and relevant news-item on New Orleans I can find here, is that the Mayor of N.O. has authorised the use of force to get the locals out of their homes if they refuse to move voluntarily. Of Bush and his recent dealings, there is not a word.....! :hair:
The talk around here is the same....MANY people are wondering why so much can be spent on unlawful war and we can't manage to scrape up anything for our own citizens in trouble.
I will say this.....the amount of help from the American citizens right now is amazing. Government may not be doing much, but I can't have my radio on for more than 5 seconds without someone discussing ways that we can help the people down in New Orleans. It really is wonderful - everyone is coming together and trying to find ways to help those people. So although our government may be failing, the people are doing a wonderful job of helping.
I am so glad George W. can not be re-elected again! Although, he will probably come up with a way that he CAN and will be re-elected!!
As Yogamama has pointed out, the American people are "standing up for their own".... It's always the little man that comes through: everyone with any profile seems to come in with their open-handed generosity, but with the hidden agenda of 'what's in it for me....?'
Of course, this is not the only US model but I notice how often appeal is made to it. The exploration of near space is termed the "New Frontier". After 9/11 the rhetoric was very "head 'em off at the pass" and "Wanted: Dead or Alive". It makes no difference that the founders of the Republic were city dwellers and highly educated. The icons have become the wilderness hunter and the illiterate. They are, also, almost entirely white and male.
Despite this, there is also the long tradition of "barn building", of the neighbours gathering to help. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, for example, a very USian church, alongside its theology, runs warehouses for the support of their disadvantaged members. It is this generosity of spirit that we are seeing now, with groups and individuals swifter than any state or government to come to the aid of their brothers and sisters. This is the up-side of the myth of self-reliance: when we are needed, we will ignore regulations and, even, personal safety, to go to the rescue, while the 'authorities' stand on the sidelines wringing their hands.
Definitely well said, Abraham! It is sad that some people are not interested in helping those in need because of things our government is doing. I would hate to be in need and have someone tell me and my family they would not help us because they did not like our President.
So I'd just like to point out in fairness to Nick, and to the discussion, that the comments ostensibly made by 'Abraham' in post #47 of this thread, are actually mine... I posted onto the thread discussion, under his name by mistake.... thought I was accessing the site through my browser, not his....
Apologies for any misconceptions.... :doh:
But Frederica/Abraham has an excellent point about helping the victims now and worrying about laying blame (and there's plenty of it to lay, obviously) later. I think we're all thinking about helping in whatever way we can. Our temple, like most churches and religious organizations, is involved in relief efforts, everything from just sending money to relief agencies to offering housing for those who lost their homes. Phoenix is one of the cities which is accepting those who can't be accommodated near to New Orleans, so we plan to focus our efforts on those people, helping with soup kitchens, clothing, whatever is needed. This is a way everyone in the US can help directly. We are also sending one of our anis (nuns) who is a veterinarian to help with animal rescue efforts near New Orleans. So I would encourage everyone to think of how they can best help. Be creative!
Palzang