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Meditation and Noise

edited May 2010 in Meditation
I am still pretty new to meditation, although I feel like I am off to a strong start.

My catch is this - I feel I need absolute silence to have my best meditations. When it is completely silent, I am able to really get lost in the meditation and silence my mind.

However - most nights, my wife works from home as an online tutor - and she talks VERY loud. Loud enough that her voice carries through my closed door upstairs to where I can hear it.

The natural starts and stops of her conversations shake the calmness of my mind as they distract me and get internal dialogue started that wasn't there before. I have tried putting on my headset and playing white noise in the hopes of drowning out her voice. Unfortunately - I inevitably pick out rhythms of any streaming white noise and begin thinking about and anticipating the rhythm changes and that is distracting me from focusing on my breath and a silent mind.

Does anyone have any suggestions or practices they are able to use in a situation where they can't get silence while meditating? Any suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks!

EDIT: Changing my schedule isn't an option - night time is really my only window for a meditation routine.

Comments

  • edited March 2010
    Hm, if the noise is that loud and distracting, you may want to try to soundproof one of your rooms, either the one you'll be meditating in or (more preferably) the one she works out of. Soundproofing can be easy, but makes a room pretty unsightly.

    The best thing to do if you truly need to go that route would be to tack something that will absorb the sound to the walls (and possibly the door) of the room. Friends I've had who had their own mini-studios normally used eggshell foam, but egg cartons, heavy drapes and blankets can also help block out the sound. If there's a gap under your door, you'll probably want to use a towel, blanket or draft guard to help block out the extra noise that can come in through there.

    However, I think even after you do this, you will find it still isn't quite silent enough. There will always be noises and distractions while meditating. The important thing though is to acknowledge the distraction, let it pass and not get discouraged. It is possible to meditate through these things, it's just more difficult when you're learning. If nothing else, think of it as intense training and push through the distractions.

    Good luck!
  • edited March 2010
    I believe, again, that you should try incorporating it into your meditation. listen to the sounds as they are there, don't attach anything to them, no labels like "distracting" "annoying" or "wife"... if this is very difficult for you, (as i could easily imagine, especially when practicing Shamatha as you are..'silencing the mind') then maybe you should dedicate another space (either in your home or outside your home) to your meditation sessions where the sounds won't distract you.
    best of luck!
    *namaste*
  • edited March 2010
    Try to mentally note the sound and say "listening" to yourself, and return to the breath. Watch the breath, and if you get distracted, make the note, and return.
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited March 2010
    "If my mind does not go out to disturb the noise, the noise does not disturb me." -- Ajahn Chah

    I agree with priyajiivana. Just let the sounds be; regard them in the same way you would bodily sensations or fluctuations in the breath. You could also use your situation to your benefit and practice mindfulness of sound. Alternatively, you might find another time or place to meditate. Perhaps doing so outdoors if the weather permits and you have access to a porch or balcony or yard or garden where you will be safe.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited March 2010
    TarHeel100 wrote: »
    My catch is this - I feel I need absolute silence to have my best meditations. When it is completely silent, I am able to really get lost in the meditation and silence my mind.

    It's almost impossible to remove all sensory input while meditating, and even we could there would still be plenty on internal dialogue to distract us. So perhaps it's best just to accept that sounds will arise, there's no need to be irritated by them.

    P
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Our Tibetan monk of a teacher tells us to concentrate on our meditation, despite the loud road traffic outside of the shrine room. Outside noise is no big deal, he says. He tells us not to get upset when our minds move to the noise, but to keep pulling our mind back to the task at hand. It is easy, in a quiet room, to think we have mastered concentration and focus, but the true test, and the strongest learning, occurs when there is noise.
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Changing my schedule isn't an option - night time is really my only window for a meditation routine.

    How about doing your meditation the moment you wake up?
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited March 2010
    What I do is turn my floor fan on "High" whenever people are awake in the house. I managed to drown out a rowdy party in the next room the last 3 nights :) White noise like the sound of a fan is far easier to tune out than voices.
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Ear plugs work for me! The soft spongy type you screw up and they expand to fill your lugs. :D

    I know what the other guys say about just labelling the noise and taking your mind back to the breath, but that's not easy to do; for me anyway.

    Is it an acquired skill?

    I've got a few things I've got to sort out, but I may try mediating with the family noise this evening; just to have a try. I've been meditating regularly for quite some time, eight months maybe, and apart from one occasion which felt very blissful, I have had no great 'happenings'.

    I still do it though.
  • edited March 2010
    I agree with some of the others. It's easy to focus and ease into your meditation in a quiet room...the true challenge is with everything going on.
    It's very rare in life that you get a perfectly quiet set of moments. So instead of dettaching yourself from it, why not just accept it and let it become part of you?

    There's always noise going on...whether they are pleasant or distracting is a label placed upon it by yourself. When one meditates outside in "peaceful nature" you have the noise of the birds, the wind, other animals all with the same chance of distracting you as any other noise.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited March 2010
    pegembara wrote: »
    How about doing your meditation the moment you wake up?

    Or before you wake up?:D

    P
  • slowmichaelslowmichael Explorer
    edited March 2010
    Noise, since i have a mild form of tinnitus i always hear noise. But whilst i am able to meditate with the tinnitus or any kind of sound that is constant altough it is not making things easier. I have a very hard time to medidate when i am able to hear people talking or changing sounds.

    Personally i like to meditate outdoors it feels better and also there is enough backgroundnoise so i dont get bothered with my tinnitus.

    But to be honest i feel like cheating when i do this. Wrong intention i try to escape from the tinnitus whilst buddhism is just about accepting.

    Hey i am just a beginner but if i am meditating and my tinnitus is bothering me i investigate what exactly is bothering me. if i look closely it is the idea oh my god this will not go, it will never go, poor me why can it not just be quiet. Then i have a few moments that i judge as, well hey that was good meditating i must try to hold on to that. GRASPING!

    It is all there avoiding,judging, grasping. I follow my breath and see these things as they arise and what they do to me. I hope and guess with patience and training i will be able to progress.

    I am not hardcore about this i still find it more enjoyable outdoors and i sometimes give in to this luxury. Don't force yourself go outside but try to do your practice also under conditions that are chalenging and look for what is really disturbing you.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 2010
    I think it would be interesting to investigate what is meant by 'best meditations'. Is this a reliable reflection? Useful? For example I would like to take the insight from meditation into my actual non-meditative life. Otherwise what is the point? Can I expect to have silence in my waking life?
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I think it would be interesting to investigate what is meant by 'best meditations'. Is this a reliable reflection? Useful? For example I would like to take the insight from meditation into my actual non-meditative life. Otherwise what is the point? Can I expect to have silence in my waking life?

    I can only speak from the standpoint of what I have been taught in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Unfamiliar with other traditions, they may contradict this ... however:

    To Tibetan Buddhists, the "best meditation" is when you can focus and concentrate surrounded by noise.

    It's a common misconception among us Westerners that a good meditation is one that makes us feel happier and/or gives us "experiences". Maybe because yoga brought meditation to the West and yoga places merit on "experiences" from meditation. Maybe because meditation has been adopted by everyone who wants to promote their "how to be happy" school.

    Tibetan Buddhism, however, seeks to be free from the happy-unhappy shackles (attachment-aversion), and the goal of meditation is not "happiness" or "experiences". The goal is to develop concentration and focus so you can start analyzing what your conceptions of reality and self. And to have the strengths of focus and concentration to rise above the instinctive reactions at the time of death (death is viewed as one of the optimal times to achieve enlightenment, if you are prepared).
  • slowmichaelslowmichael Explorer
    edited March 2010
    FoibleFull wrote: »

    It's a common misconception among us Westerners that a good meditation is one that makes us feel happier and/or gives us "experiences". Maybe because yoga brought meditation to the West and yoga places merit on "experiences" from meditation. Maybe because meditation has been adopted by everyone who wants to promote their "how to be happy" school.


    SO TRUE

    Well FoibleFull you seem to be able to put down in a few lines of writing what i think feel about meditation but i can not explain it like you can.

    That is so recognabisle expecting things and especialy NICE things...... . When i meditate i try to be aware of this longing, wanting, i can see that it is a product of my mind. In meditation i am aware that at first sight sounds disturb me but whilst meditating i can go deeper and see that it is not the sound but the wanting to have a "good" medidation, that is well the meditation that makes you feel relaxed, positive,....... and then the noise or whatever bothers me is a hindrance and then i can see my mind thinking I DO NOT WANT THAT, then whatever troubles me becomes an enemy. Ofcourse this is a misconception. So the real source is not the object that is "bothersome" but the wish no it is stronger than a wish the deep deep desire to find something "hapiness" in meditation. But that is so non buddhist!

    Well what confuses me is that i see this and understand this. But what do i do with it? I tend to THINK whilst meditating something like: Hey Michel expect nothing, let tings that bother me just be there accept them return to focussing on the breath and or the feelings that come with these bothersome things.

    So i focus on breathing but there is also a tendency to analyse and think.

    Is this OK?

    I have been surching for guidance in local sanghas but thusfar well i have not found what i am looking for.

    Perhaps the teacher of FoibleFull should move to Gent, Belgium. It's a very nice medieval city. Hey that would be great.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited March 2010
    FoibleFull wrote: »

    It's a common misconception among us Westerners that a good meditation is one that makes us feel happier and/or gives us "experiences". Maybe because yoga brought meditation to the West and yoga places merit on "experiences" from meditation. Maybe because meditation has been adopted by everyone who wants to promote their "how to be happy" school.


    SO TRUE

    Well FoibleFull you seem to be able to put down in a few lines of writing what i think feel about meditation but i can not explain it like you can.

    That is so recognabisle expecting things and especialy NICE things...... . When i meditate i try to be aware of this longing, wanting, i can see that it is a product of my mind. In meditation i am aware that at first sight sounds disturb me but whilst meditating i can go deeper and see that it is not the sound but the wanting to have a "good" medidation, that is well the meditation that makes you feel relaxed, positive,....... and then the noise or whatever bothers me is a hindrance and then i can see my mind thinking I DO NOT WANT THAT, then whatever troubles me becomes an enemy. Ofcourse this is a misconception. So the real source is not the object that is "bothersome" but the wish no it is stronger than a wish the deep deep desire to find something "hapiness" in meditation. But that is so non buddhist!

    Well what confuses me is that i see this and understand this. But what do i do with it? I tend to THINK whilst meditating something like: Hey Michel expect nothing, let tings that bother me just be there accept them return to focussing on the breath and or the feelings that come with these bothersome things.

    So i focus on breathing but there is also a tendency to analyse and think.

    Is this OK?

    I have been surching for guidance in local sanghas but thusfar well i have not found what i am looking for.

    Perhaps the teacher of FoibleFull should move to Gent, Belgium. It's a very nice medieval city. Hey that would be great.

    For beginners, we are taught to focus on our breath in and out, and count the breaths. When we can get to 21 with absolutely no distractions, then we are ready to move on to more advanced meditation techniques. Easier said than done! Initially, we should meditate for only 5 or 10 minutes at a time. We do not want to learn "bad" habits. As our concentration gets better, we can start meditating for longer periods. If our mind is too lazy and we just can't concentrate, we should get up, move around, go to a bright place, splash water on our face ... then return to our cushion and try again. If it is too excited and distracted, then we should briefly remind ourselves of what we hope to get out of meditating so we can slow down and discipline our mind.

    Some days I do not focus well ... then it becomes frustrating. What can you do but laugh at yourself? I heard a long-time Buddhist nun say she still has trouble meditating, so I try to be patient and compassionate for my poor little monkey mind.

    Yes, our teacher is qualified and dedicated (of Tibetan birth, entered the Dalai Lama's Namgyal monastery at age 12). His teachings include the example he shows us of patience and kindness and humility. Our centre was started by a group of people who took a meditation class at the local community college. They incorporated and were so successful at fund-raising that they were able to buy an old, small house. They then asked Namgyal Monastery if they would be able to send a resident teacher, who would live at the house and be given a monthly donation to cover living expenses. The members work very hard at the various fund-raising efforts, and most of the operating costs and teacher donation comes from these efforts. Every week there is a beginners class, an intermediate class, and a puja of one sort of another. There is no cost to attend these, but $5 into the donation box is suggested (but not checked up on). I was initially attracted to this centre because of the qualifications of the teacher and the fact that no one was trying to get rich in the name of Buddhism.
  • edited March 2010
    I have the same problem with noise while meditating, though I think the problem is becoming less with time. I found it near impossible to meditate when I first moved to where I live now, since here I have to meditate with someone else in the same room (who's not meditating), and I was use to having a whole, reasonably quiet, house to myself before.

    I think, as others have mentioned, the key is to not let yourself get attached to the noise. And when you find it's simply too distracting and you can't help but get attached to it, try not to get angry with yourself, or the cause of the noise. I know from experience, this is far easier said than done!

    What I personally find helpful is before I even start the meditation, I accept that there will be noise.

    If I start to get distracted by a noise during the meditation, there are a few approaches I might take. If (for example) someone starts talking loudly on the phone, or turns on a tv in another room, I try to remind myself that they're not doing it just to be annoying and interupt my meditation ;), but like everyone else in the world, all they're doing is trying to do small things in their life which will make them happy.

    Another thing I often do when distracted by a sound, is without trying to label or attach any emotion to it, I allow it to be there while noticing the gaps between each fragment of sound, and realise that no matter how much noise there is, there are always more gaps (or more silence). I'm not sure if I've explained that very well though. :confused:
    Personally i like to meditate outdoors it feels better and also there is enough backgroundnoise so i dont get bothered with my tinnitus.

    I'd like to meditate outdoors sometime, and there are lots of nice places to meditate near where I live, but my problem is that I can't seem to relax enough. I've tried to meditate while sitting on the beach on a couple of occasions, with no one else around at all, but as soon as I close my eyes I start to become paranoid that someone might suddenly be there and I won't see them. I don't know what I'm afraid of even if someone did walk past. Anyway, I wondered if anything like this has ever bothered you while meditating outside? Or do you have any suggestions of how to get around it? Thanks. :)
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    As you have already got good advice on how to deal with the noise, is there any chance to change your place while meditating? Going to a nearby church/temple, your parents' house, a friend's place with a spare room or any other place that is quieter. You can return home after the meditation is done.

    Voices can be really distracting to a peaceful meditation than other sounds because voices carry meanings and without knowing the mind grasps them. If possible it is best to avoid it.
  • lightwithinlightwithin Veteran
    edited April 2010
    I find that voices are the most distracting kind of sound, as Deshy said, because you instantly get dragged into their meaning and this is more distracting than say, cars going by on the road outside.

    In my case, I can't find a time away from voices or TV outside my meditation area, unless I meditate late at night, when everyone is sleeping, so that's become my time for practice.
  • edited April 2010
    I find that voices are the most distracting kind of sound, as Deshy said, because you instantly get dragged into their meaning and this is more distracting than say, cars going by on the road outside

    Yes. In a way, I think I'm lucky at the moment. I don't think voices distract me much more than other sounds because any voices I can hear in the house are not of my native language, and although I understand French somewhat, it doesn't really come automatically to me yet. I have to concentrate to understand. So of course, this makes it far easier to not get dragged into their meaning. Although I hope not, perhaps I'll start to find it more difficult to meditate the more I understand of the language. It may sound strange, but this had never actually occured to me before.

    So a tip... If you happen to live near any foreigners, ask if you can meditate at their house! ;)
  • ValtielValtiel Veteran
    edited April 2010
    My catch is this - I feel I need absolute silence to have my best meditations. When it is completely silent, I am able to really get lost in the meditation and silence my mind.

    Then it sounds like a noisy environment is ideal for your meditation sessions. :)
  • edited April 2010
    At first, what I thought I needed in meditation was absolute silence. However, it is nearly impossible to do in our apartment. We live just off of a highway and there is no drowning out the traffic on the street in any room of our 900 square foot abode. The traffic is 24/7.. my husband even sleeps with ear-plugs.

    But since the options were "meditate in the noise, or not meditate at all, I obviously want to choose the former.

    I thought about ear-plugs, as my husband uses. They are effective but they create a very artificial world of silence, I personally don't feel it's best for my meditation. When I put them in, it's just "not right" for meditation, I'm not even sure I can describe it.

    So then I decided to just work with the noise. So there's noise, no big deal. This is life. I have to learn to deal with life and I may as well learn the hard way.

    I'm now working through learning to simply not become attached to these noises. It isn't easy, and it's a bit like someone who can't swim being thrown into the deep end (everything I've studied suggested silence for beginners and to only move on to dealing with noises at a later time), but the fact is: some people learn by being thrown into deep waters.

    So I just have to be one of them ;)

    My mind is never silent anyway. I have an anxiety disorder, which means constantly my mind is trying to attach itself to various things or ideas. Throw in a few more noises, there's really not much difference from what I have to do on a regular basis (allow the thoughts and noises to simply pass without attachment).

    I started to realize that the goal of my meditation should not be "silencing" my mind at any point anyway, but rather not forming attachments to the things that come to pass. In some ways, the noise is a good aid for me.
  • lightwithinlightwithin Veteran
    edited April 2010
    @Rain: if I had the option of meditation in the noise, or NO meditation, I'd be learning to deal with noise too, but I'm lucky to have a quiet time at night and I take full advantage of it.

    I agree that silencing the mind is not what we should be focusing on, and I have done my best in certain situations to meditate in spite of a noisy environment, but I just can't get past it for some reason and my meditation session suffers greatly for it.

    I can take traffic outside, I can take dogs barking every now and then and car alarms going off every now and then, but it's loud on and off noises that I can't handle. The ones that go off and take my attention away, then go quiet for a while then on again and repeat. There's a drummer guy nearby who sometimes chooses to practice RIGHT when I set out to meditate, and that's one noise I can't get past too.

    Talking by my family outside and their TV watching, is enough to get me off the meditating "mood" in a flash.

    I COULD try to meditate in spite of their talking, but I've come to realize, those sessions aren't the best for me.
  • edited April 2010
    just hear all sound as mantra , dont fight against the noise just let it be
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited April 2010
    TarHeel100 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any suggestions or practices they are able to use in a situation where they can't get silence while meditating? Any suggestions are very welcome.
    try to capture the picture comes into you mind whenever a sound take your attention

    this is not concentration (samatha) meditation but can say (vipassana) insight meditation which actually helps open the mind to wisdom
  • edited April 2010
    it's better for you because it's more challenging. 'Deep Waters' = Challenge. ;)
    THe rougher conditions you train yourself within the better you will be period...! It is the reaction that you have control over, not the noises or the source of the noises. You are in control....
    Try noticing the way the sounds come and go. don't put words to the sounds in your head.
    Just let the sounds come and go. Notice them, let them end and settle on their own time. They always will.
    Don't let it become the focus of the meditation...but don't force them out of your head, either if it's inevitable.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Have you tried asking your wife to not talk so loud? :D Although I have never had voices to deal with as sounds, I have had dogs barking, traffic, airplanes, etc. What I do is simply listen to them. It is possible to keep a silent mind AND listen at the same time. However, I would imagine that voices would be more difficult to listen to than a dog would be.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    just think of the voices/sounds as the mosquitos in the forest.

    The monks always say that they are the best teachers.

    They allow you to observe your own reaction to them, in a very clear and obvious way, how you torture yourself.

    annoying until you learn to let go.
  • edited May 2010
    I believe, again, that you should try incorporating it into your meditation. listen to the sounds as they are there, don't attach anything to them, no labels like "distracting" "annoying" or "wife"... if this is very difficult for you, (as i could easily imagine, especially when practicing Shamatha as you are..'silencing the mind') then maybe you should dedicate another space (either in your home or outside your home) to your meditation sessions where the sounds won't distract you.
    best of luck!
    *namaste*

    Good idea

    Using the sounds as a subject of your meditation, particually at the start, works for me (usually).

    :)
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